Author Topic: Target coming to jackson Heights  (Read 25618 times)

Offline JH.77

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2017, 04:14:10 PM »
MrPlaza is why I come to this board. Smart, insightful comments about our (evolving) neighborhood.  Thank you.

I would also like to throw this into the mix: a store like Target will hire more employees than a typical store does.  Many of the family-owned stores in JH understandably hire family first.   More hires also come in part because of another benefit: longer hours.  Check out the hours for a comparable store in Forest Hills: Mon-Fri 7am to 10pm. Sat 8am-11pm. Sunday 8am to 10pm.  The working class, the working poor, and let's face it, the average New Yorker, works LONG HOURS and will benefit from having a store open those hours.

The reality is that theater space sat empty, boarded and blighted for years at this point and having another economic engine chugging in our neighborhood will lift retailers of all stripes. 
 


Offline bellabella

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2017, 06:06:05 PM »
I certainly am not opposed to Target in JH. I actually go to target in Flushing at least once a week. I just think this is a waste of space. The Forest Hills location is a mishmash of stuff. They really do not have much of anything. I don't foresee this location  bringing throngs of folks to our area. 82 Street has always had franchises for as long as I can remember. Woolworth's, KB toys, that bed bath and beyond type store (I forget the name), ABC's etc. I don't recall it ever being an area with Mom and Pop type stores. I wonder what other retail options will be there. I am still dreaming of a whole foods and trader joe"s but when that happens we will probably be retired in Florida.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2017, 06:48:24 AM »
Quote
CaptainFlannel, I don't think your definition of gentrification holds up.

It's not *my* definition of gentrification. When people say stuff like "my definition of 'word' is x," they derail productive conversations. Yes, we can discuss the many, many factors that lead up to, result in, and are the consequences gentrification, which makes it a complex issue. But arguing over the basic definition of gentrification is about as productive as arguing over what the word "glass" means in a discussion of stained-glass making techniques from the middle ages.

Offline Jeffsayyes

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2017, 08:10:04 AM »
Great points. My concerns are that once the big box comes in, it will never go back to being a locally owned place.


Also at issue is the accumulation of money. When there is a family run place, the family can accumulate money. Most employees of the Target store is won't accumulate much.


The longer hours thing is going to make the neighborhood safer, though. Also going to be better for street vendors in that area.

Offline Palermo

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2017, 04:23:59 PM »
Gentrification is the process in which....
It's not *my* definition of gentrification. When people say stuff like "my definition of 'word' is x," they derail productive conversations. Yes, we can discuss the many, many factors that lead up to, result in, and are the consequences gentrification, which makes it a complex issue. But arguing over the basic definition of gentrification is about as productive as...

If one starts with the line "gentrification is the process when" then another can, in all fairness, assume that that is *your* definition and if one uses that line to support an argument, then another can counter it without being accused of jeopardizing a productive conversation.

And determining the basic definition of gentrification is quite productive.  Gentrification is a clear instance where bigots have a completely politically correct opportunity to cast stereotypes, make insensitive remarks and moan about a particular group moving  into an area.  Knowing the definition would be quite revealing I'd think.

My friend grew up in JH.  His dad cleaned offices, his mom cleaned homes and neither of them ever got a very good handle on English.  He presently has a 6 figure income and bought in JH.  He's considerably "less" Colombian than his parents, sheepishly admits his Spanish could be better and his personal tastes pace that of any Brooklyn hipster with a legendary grasp on soccer.  Where does he fit into the gentrification discussion?  He certainly adds to the cost of real estate around here, but is he free from the gentrifer stigma because of who his parents are or that he never left the hood?  Does he become a gentrifier if he leaves the near proximity of his high school?  Or was he supposed to stay poor and ethnic? 

Offline queenskid2

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2017, 05:09:32 PM »
Gentrification is the process in which....
It's not *my* definition of gentrification. When people say stuff like "my definition of 'word' is x," they derail productive conversations. Yes, we can discuss the many, many factors that lead up to, result in, and are the consequences gentrification, which makes it a complex issue. But arguing over the basic definition of gentrification is about as productive as...

If one starts with the line "gentrification is the process when" then another can, in all fairness, assume that that is *your* definition and if one uses that line to support an argument, then another can counter it without being accused of jeopardizing a productive conversation.

And determining the basic definition of gentrification is quite productive.  Gentrification is a clear instance where bigots have a completely politically correct opportunity to cast stereotypes, make insensitive remarks and moan about a particular group moving  into an area.  Knowing the definition would be quite revealing I'd think.

My friend grew up in JH.  His dad cleaned offices, his mom cleaned homes and neither of them ever got a very good handle on English.  He presently has a 6 figure income and bought in JH.  He's considerably "less" Colombian than his parents, sheepishly admits his Spanish could be better and his personal tastes pace that of any Brooklyn hipster with a legendary grasp on soccer.  Where does he fit into the gentrification discussion?  He certainly adds to the cost of real estate around here, but is he free from the gentrifer stigma because of who his parents are or that he never left the hood?  Does he become a gentrifier if he leaves the near proximity of his high school?  Or was he supposed to stay poor and ethnic? 

I've always thought of gentrification as being more of a matter of class than race (although it has a disproportionate effect on people of color).  If you get priced out of your neighborhood and find yourself homeless or pushed further into the fringes, does the race of the person who replaced you really matter?  I guess we can look at it as a positive that more and more non-whites have the economic power to gentrify a community, but that doesn't change the fact that the affordable housing crisis in NYC is the product of economics. 

Offline MrPlaza

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2017, 05:56:19 PM »
I guess we can look at it as a positive that more and more non-whites have the economic power to gentrify a community, but that doesn't change the fact that the affordable housing crisis in NYC is the product of economics.
This is something I personally can get behind. Because culturally, like Palermo's friend, I find myself at a bit of a crossroads. My wife as well. Both our parents think we're snobby. Haha. We were born into very different circumstances than we currently live, but I think it's a net positive that generational wealth is beginning to take root within communities of color. I'm living proof. My wife is as well. It's a reason she wants to own property; to continue to build on that foundation for our son, and hopefully his children.

But to queenskid's and Palermo's points, when that begins to happen, is it still gentrification? My mother would have loved a Target within walking distance of her home, whereas I'm mostly indifferent. I'd admittedly be more excited by the curated retail experience I mentioned earlier. My wife and I love "artisanal" s**t. Haha. We're both people of color. Neither of us grew up in households that appreciated (or could afford) that kind of lifestyle. But here we are. Where do people like us sit on the spectrum? Are we colonialists? Generational beneficiaries opening the door wider for others like us? Or, dare I say, Uncle Toms?

It's a tough discussion. And one that has long plagued my wife and I, as we grew up asking ourselves, "Where do I belong?"

Offline missmarty

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2017, 09:07:07 AM »
Let's all admit that the 82nd St. BID is a failed organization.
That Seth Taylor was forced out in 2014, was a sure sign that the group was doomed.
How does NoHo look these days? That's where he went. He left 82nd and went to NoHo.
From an old article, he came to JH/Elmhurst with this experience:
Taylor worked in several BID's around the city, including the 34th Street Partnership and Bryant Park Corporation, the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership and the Union Square Partnership.

All of the concerns, issues mentioned on this thread could have been better dealt with under proven leadership of a strong BID. The whole organization was hacked to pieces over the 2014 expansion, and its time to safely assume that the Queens Neighbors United group was a pre-cursor to the Trump presidential win.

It looks like the BID webpage hasn't been updated in a year or so. Also looks like it's a staff of two and some street cleaners. (thanks, street cleaners!)
I'd be really interested in attending a meeting of that board, to see what their longterm plans are, especially what the effects of Target will be on traffic, and the other businesses on 82nd. Are they going to close Associated and the Laundrymat? Both of those are enormous spaces that are absolute plusses for the neighborhood.
I put a call in to the BID, it hasn't been returned.

http://www.82ndstreet.org/board-of-directors/
82nd Street Partnership
37-06 82nd Street, Suite 309
Jackson Heights, NY 11372
Ph. (718) 335-9421
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Offline newjhuser

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2017, 12:42:11 PM »
Clean Streets on 74 and 73 would definitely benefit that area

Offline hagsrus

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2017, 02:38:11 PM »
Blanking - Associated on 8nd St?

I wonder if Target might sponsor whatever changes are needed to the paving at the triangle park to allow seating? It would be a nice place for a little rest while shopping.


Offline hagsrus

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2017, 02:40:35 PM »
82nd St

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2017, 03:12:52 PM »
Quote
If one starts with the line "gentrification is the process when" then another can, in all fairness, assume that that is *your* definition

So if someone writes "evaporation is the process..." we should assume that in all fairness that is that person's own personal definition?

Quote
Knowing the definition would be quite revealing I'd think.

I agree. It would be more helpful for folks to look it up instead of assuming people are creating their own special definition for words.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gentrification
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=gentrification

Offline wlirfan

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2017, 03:38:21 PM »

It's a tough discussion. And one that has long plagued my wife and I, as we grew up asking ourselves, "Where do I belong?"
[/quote]

You belong to whatever group you associate with, and to every group that exists.  Despite what's going on in this country, we all "belong" to each other, and there's no need to feel excluded based on anything, most of all working hard and doing better than the generation before you.

Look, I don't know much about what constitutes "gentrification," nor do I care.  When my family first came to America, I was 5.  We lived (and I grew up) in Astoria, and my immediate family still lives there.  Over the years, I've lived in the West Village, the east Flatiron district and the East Village.  Each time, I am sure I displaced someone who made less than me.  Each time, I was displaced by someone who made more than me (or I just wanted to save money and not throw it away paying rent every month).  Did I "gentrify" the East Village?  I don't think so.  Is the East Village safer and more expensive today, and are the shopping options higher end, than when I lived there?  Yes.  But that's just the city. 

Again, I look at any change in our business district as an improvement over what it was 12 years ago - a vast array of money transfer stores, cell phone shops, really bad take-out, cheap clothes and dirty chain drug stores.  Our restaurants have improved on decore and cleanliness (thanks, in large part, to the ratings, but also because newcomers tend to go after the newer looking restaurants);  we have clothing stores where I can go and buy stuff to wear as business casual clothing;  and our Duane Reade/Rite Aid is actually pretty decent and well kept.  There's still room for improvement, but even in nice parts of Brooklyn, the opening of a Target didn't kill the independent businesses.  Instead, walk a couple of blocks away and you'll see them flourish.

Offline the80s

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2017, 11:06:17 AM »
More about the Target, changes along 82nd Street, and commercial rents along that strip:
http://nypost.com/2017/05/24/looming-target-shakes-up-queens-shopping-street/

Offline JackM

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Re: Target coming to jackson Heights
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2017, 09:45:47 AM »
The problem with the discussion of gentrification is that often the people that complain about it the most are the cause of it in the first place.  People want to move into a neighborhood and then they don't want it to change.  But often their moving in has changed the demographic/economic feature of it.  I know people who have grown up in JH and moved away.  They moved up economically from their parents and now have moved into neighborhoods and displaced others.  There is no real right or wrong in this debate.  Change is driven by economic forces.  Realtors, landlords, property owners want the most money they can get for their property.  NYC has always been a city of change -- good & bad.  JH was once an upper middle class neighborhood until it was overdeveloped and the Irish and Italian immigrants moved in.  And they were displaced by Latinos and South Asians.  We are again in another era of transition.  Where this will take us we don't know yet.  The people who are moving in will form it's nature.  I see many Chinese and other Asians moving into our neighborhood.  Will we look more like Flushing?  We also have more transplanted Brooklynites.  Will we look more like Greenpoint?  Will the Latinos stay or move out?  My only concern is that we remain diverse and not overwhelmed by one ethnic group or another.  I like variety.  I wouldn't want an all Flushing or all Greenpoint or all Spanish Harlem.  I'd like them all here.  Together.  I'd like the working class and the upper class.  But this is all out of anyone's control really.  We'll see.  It's an adventure.