Author Topic: We are not a wealthy neighborhood  (Read 14949 times)

Offline aleafb

  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2015, 02:18:10 PM »
Planesland, I'm not exactly sure by what you mean with that post but let me first respond with, yum.

Second, if you're implying those prices are high and they are from spotted pig, which is one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Manhattan, here are the prices from Walters

blackened catfish coleslaw, tartar sauce...17
whole roasted trout capers, lemon, brown butter...22
spicy fisherman’s stew crab, mussels, cockles, shrimp, in shellfish broth, w/ grilled sourdough.............................24
roasted half chicken spicy honey and lemon rub & mashed potatoes..........................................................................20
wild mushroom risotto wild mushrooms, parmesan broth............................................................................................22
fried chicken mashed potatoes, brown gravy, spicy honey...16
berkshire pork chop broccoli rabe, salsa verde, jalapeño grits......................................................................................23
7 oz. walter burger on brioche roll w/ lettuce, tomato, onion, pickle & fries (add bacon and/or cheddar cheese $1 each)....14
grilled bar steak fries, arugula, horseradish cream, chimichurri...................................................................................25
french dip filet mignon on baguette w/ horseradish sauce, au jus & fries..............................................................................18

Offline ljr

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2015, 05:54:04 PM »
Lalochezia (did I spell it right?)--that's what I'm talking about! Thank you. Okay so the Spotted Pig prices are a tad higher, still we do have many places that are pretty darn pricey and seem to attract a lot of business. People act as if JH only has places that are cheap, cheap, cheap and that's all it can support. Not true. I do love the fact that my husband and I can have a really great Thai meal at Cafe 79 at an amazingly thrifty price, at Thakali Kitchen as well—2 of our faves—but one can also spend a LOT more money on dinner right here on 37th Avenue. At places that are doing great business.

Offline curti33

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2015, 05:54:48 PM »
I would patronize a gastropub or higher quality American restaurant in the neighborhood so often - for date night, for 5 PM family dinner, for brunch, as part of the tour with which I hope to lure friends here (which also includes lots of older neighborhood spots that I love and will continue to visit frequently).  It is true that we are not a wealthy neighborhood, but this can happen.

Offline 1jacksonheights

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2015, 07:54:01 PM »
I think this neighborhood could easily support a modern American restaurant.  The median income (according to the last census) was $55k; that was in 2014. (I originally thought it was 2010.) There are a lot of people who are price sensitive in the neighborhood, but trust me, there are others who are not (and must leave the 'hood when we want modern American or bistro food).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 08:04:33 PM by 1jacksonheights »

Offline petster

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 500
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2015, 09:24:02 PM »
An American bistro do great here. It would also work as an anchor for the Bruson as well. I think this neighborhood could definitely support it. I see plenty of wholefoods and Bloomingdales shopping bags getting off the subway and walking down 37th avenue. Wouldn't it be great to have a fun place to stop off before going home for dinner or a drink.

Offline hfm

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 572
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2015, 11:27:04 PM »
Who's coming up with the money for the wine bar you'll be an infrequent customer to

I can tell you that two people are currently considering putting serious money into a modern American restaurant in Jackson Heights and that if it happens the chef/owner will be someone who has worked in a number of Michelin starred restaurants and who lives in Jackson Heights.

One of the things that the investors are doing is evaluating potential support, and as part of that we have been reading recent threads on this forum with great interest.

The message from this thread, and the contemporaneous thread "Why Do You Leave the Neighborhood?", is that nobody in his right mind would attempt anything here beyond a gastropub that sells decent burgers.

This is sobering, but we are currently engaged in very active negotiations for space and deciding how much weight to give posts on this forum.

We leave the neighborhood quite often for "american bistro" style cuisine. I would call average once a week or so often though for eating out. Might be seldomly more often depending. I'd definitely spend money there if it was opened and it was good. I think when people say "quality burger place" they are most likely either referring to a place that does that plus other options. Either that or everyone is jaded and doesn't believe it's actually going to happen..

Build it, they will come.

Offline Miss Chatelaine

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2015, 11:33:20 PM »
I also agree that something like that would do well here. It's a dated and totally un-hip reference but I was idly thinking something along the lines of a toned-down version of Coffee Shop on Union Square would absolutely have broad enough appeal to be successful here. Armando's and La Portena were both relatively pricey and busy. And not incidentally, they were both located in the Bruson Building!

Offline ptbass75

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2015, 02:11:47 AM »
I guess Redge the term 'gastropub' comes up a lot because what a lot of people are looking for is a comfortable neighborhood bar/restaurant that offers something exciting and fresh to this neighborhood, but is also approachable and doesnt rewrite the book.

What you are talking about sounds more akin to Salt and Fat (how are they doing, by the way?) in Sunnyside.

Our closest comparison here would be alchemy BBq, which failed for many reasons.  Two of the largest being that Josh, the owner, was operating as a rented space in the back of a bar, with no access to the alcohol sales.  Also, the location for experimental bbq was wrong, off the beaten path and in the back of a bar that isn't exactly attracting a hip clientelle. 

The description of what you would like to present the neighborhood is a bit cryptic, which im sure is purposefully done.  If maybe you could tell us a bit more, than maybe you will get the feedback you want as to whether the place you are looking to create would be feasable.

Offline redge

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2015, 10:20:10 AM »
The comments both here and in private messages are much appreciated.

We're going ahead with a restaurant. The question is whether we'll open in Manhattan or Jackson Heights. This neighborhood is well served by South American, East Indian and Asian restaurants offering casual dining. The question is whether the area will support a modern American restaurant that offers more refined service (when it comes to service, we think that Danny Meyer has it right in his book on hospitality, Setting the Table). There is no clear answer to the question because, to the best of our knowledge, nobody has tried to do it. It's a risk, but also an opportunity.

The chef/owner trained principally in France, specifically in Paris and the Rhône-Alpes. This means that French technique will be at the core of the menu. Beyond saying that, it is difficult at this early stage to define "modern American" because the menu has to be responsive to the neighborhood. In the case of Jackson Heights, this means a menu that is of interest to people of a number of ethnic backgrounds. Over the last few years, there have been interesting developments in Latin cuisine, and these developments may be reflected in parts of the menu. Similarly, traditional Italian influences are evident in both American cuisine and some South American cuisine, which suggests that modern Italian influences may have broad appeal in this community.

We don't plan to compete with existing Jackson Heights restaurants. The community is at a saturation point for places that are based on minimal decor, casual service, high turnover of tables, and menus involving very inexpensive ingredients. It is possible to buy a steak for less than what one costs at a good butcher. There is no point in opening a restaurant that offers more of the same.

All of that said, the message about burgers comes through loud and clear. There will be one.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 10:37:20 AM by redge »

Offline ptbass75

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2015, 10:40:11 AM »
Definitely sounds interesting Redge.  I mean, if someone approached me with the idea of opening a traditional French Pastry shop like Canelle in a strip mall way deep in East Elmhurst, I would have guessed it wouldn't succeed. I think there are a lot of lessons to be taken for why they are successful. 

I get the feeling you know all this so I don't want my reiteration to sound patronizing but I feel the need to mention it because so many places in our neighborhood get this wrong.

Cannele is successful because of their consistency, freshness and high-quality. They offer things that cannot be found in our neighborhood, and are not readily available in the city in general. That's why there's always lines out the door even though it's not easy to get to.

Oh, and let's not forget the fact they are so reasonable in price.

Considering their French theme and success, I would guess that your restaurant could be successful in this neighborhood.

For me personally, it would probably be a place I'd be glad to have around and can tout, but not one I would frequent regularly. That's because I have two young girls and regarding going out we look for restaurants that are family friendly.  Unless its date night.  I guess it depends on the price point as well. I just tend to be interested in the casual rather than the upscale.  Again, that's just me. I welcome any sort of diversity to this neighborhood And would be happy to help spread the word.

I could also start brushing up on my django if you're interested in having live music.

Offline jmct

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2015, 11:01:16 AM »
I guess what confuses me is why people who think that the neighborhood can't sustain a somewhat more upscale and/or "American syle" restaurant are so incredibly negative about it.  Of course anyone who opens a new restaurant business in this neighborhood should do their research and make sure there's clientele for it.  But what do any of us have to gain by opening up more of the same?  I don't want this neighborhood to turn into Brownstone Brooklyn, but there are tons of empty storefronts right now and I, for one, would love to see some more variety in our restaurants in the neighborhood.  I love and patronize what we have, but I'd also be very happy to see more.

Offline redge

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2015, 11:02:33 AM »
ptbass75,

Note that I said French technique, not French cuisine. Many of the New York's best restaurants are based on French technique, but are very much American when it comes to their food.

We believe that children should be welcome in any restaurant provided that they are old enough to understand that a restaurant is not a race track or young enough that they are incapable of racing :) Lots of young kids are entirely capable of rising to the occasion, and we may very well have a children's menu, certainly for weekend brunch.

I love Django Reinhardt and Stéphane Grappelli (I had the privilege of seeing Grappelli perform with Julian Lloyd Webber), but I'm not sure how well their music would go over in a New York restaurant in 2015. It would be an interesting experiment.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 11:11:43 AM by redge »

Offline Miss Chatelaine

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2015, 11:13:59 AM »

I love Django Reinhardt and Stéphane Grappelli (I had the privilege of seeing Grappelli perform with Julian Lloyd Webber), but I'm not sure how well their music would go over in a New York restaurant in 2015. It would be an interesting experiment.

OMG, this, in JH, or Elmhurst or Woodside, would go over very well with me at least! Like heaven, in fact!!!  ;D

Offline cultartist

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2015, 11:53:48 AM »
It will work, Redge.  The neighborhood is hungry for it, no pun intended.  And your attention to and hunger for the comments and perspectives of locals on this site is really refreshing.  Best of luck in seeing it through.

Offline ptbass75

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
Re: We are not a wealthy neighborhood
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2015, 12:12:04 PM »
Thanks for the clarification Redge.  Best of luck in whatever you are your partners decide.