Jackson Heights Life

Someone in one of the other threads wanted some more details on the income trends which lead upscale retail to not consider Jackson Heights, and pointed out that perhaps the historic district has different income trends than 11372 as a whole.

There is a GREAT mapping tool on the Census Web site with 2012 community survey data (http://www.census.gov/censusexplorer/censusexplorer.html) Choose "median household income" and "census tract," and then zoom in on Jackson Heights, and you can get the area really tightly segmented.

What you find is that there is one tiny little census tract, from 78th-81st Streets between 37th Avenue and Northern Boulevard, with a much higher median income than the rest of the surrounding tracts. And much of the surrounding area is actually the lightest, low-income color. We appear to have a *lower* median income than Woodside or Sunnyside or other surrounding areas. You can go tract by tract and compare it to, say, Astoria, Long Island City and Forest Hills - well, especially Forest Hills, where wow.

I know in my historic building, a lot of the people living here are older and living on Social Security or pensions. I remember a few years ago when I tried to do something as simple as get better Internet access into the building - very few people were actually interested.

I know I keep harping on this. And I would love to be contradicted. But the people around here who claim JH is able to support magically far more upscale retail than it has supported for the past 10 years should pony up and show some statistics rather than anecdata. I haven't seen any actual hard data beyond "oooh, well, me and my six friends would totally shop here."

I agree that a median income level around $50k is probably not enough to support a major high-end shopping district, but I don't think that's what most people are saying they want. It seems like most people are saying they want a nice bistro or gastro-pub to get a burger and a cocktail, or brunch once in a while. And $50k a year is definitely high enough to support that level of luxury. Our median income is actually higher than bed-stuy, which, as mentioned, has several of such places.

Back when I worked in restaurants, which was a long time ago, I'll admit, I heard a statistic that was something like around 10,000 people who made over $30k had to live within a couple miles for a mid-range restaurant to have a chance of making it. I think, looking at the census map, a good American style restaurant would have an excellent shot of succeeding.

Just want to also add, thanks, theplanesland, for introducing me to a whole new web addiction.... My afternoon is going to be blown.

As a whole, JH is certainly not a wealthy neighborhood. But these census results are somewhat misleading. It lists the medium income for people on Central Park West at around $100k-130k. For the West Village, about $110k. And for the East Village, about $65k. But we know that some of these areas are full of multimillionaires (as well as rent-controlled tenants).

Jadasie, I get your point. The way I look at it is not to look at the specific number, but to *compare* our neighborhood to others. Are we higher or lower than other neighborhoods with the kinds of places we want? Lower, it looks like.

More than that, though, I'd love to inject some more actual numbers into this conversation - to ground it in impartial stats rather than anecdotes. And to look at this the way retailers might be looking at it.

No one is looking to turn 37th Avenue into Fifth Avenue, or 7th Avenue in Park Slope, etc.  A few more varied and comfortable establishments would work here.  People questioned Starbucks and that is always packed.  Arunee did a nice job remodeling and that is always packed.   As for the immigrant restaurants, some of those that are packed such as Chivito D'Oro and Las Margaritas are actually quite pricey.   When I go to the NYSC gym in Sunnyside it is packed with immigrants.  So the businesses begin suggested for JH would likely appeal to MANY in the neighborhood.

The things frequently asked for, brunch spots, hip bars, trendy burger joints et cetera, are distinctly American in culture, with the preponderance (not all of course!) of their patrons being younger, native born and wealthier (and I'd venture zero dependents, but that can be folded into disposable wealth).  We have a large percentage of folks over 65 here, as well as a % of foreign born which is towering even by NYC standards and many families with many kids.  Frankly, I think they have more to do with it than income levels.

JH is a very densely populated hood, and by absolute numbers, there is a kernel of folks who could support such establishments.  Problem is the nose of the investment dollar, in particularly with risky businesses like eateries.  Quit the day job, pull in the life savings, put it all on the line for the 10% willing to pay $12 for an eggs benedict or the 50% willing to pay $24 for a good parilla? People keep pointing to Starbucks, but Starbucks is a chain and chains can better weather risk.  And if you make that great waffles and chicken, why come to JH?  The only reason why you'd do it is because no one else is doing it, rather than setting up shop where rum soaked jalapeno goat cheese poppers are not so niche.  No one is saying it can't be done, its just awfully hard and money is like water, it generally follows the easiest path.  For individual shops with individual character, it takes a person with some balls.

And its not just your balls, but also the landlord's balls.  When Peter Moceo wanted to open Rice to Riches, finding a space was difficult because no landlord thought that a place which only sold rice pudding could make their rent.  Landlords want a steady, stable tenant.  Hats off that he defied the odds and made a go of it, but he is the exception.  In Jackson Heights 2015, the odds are on a Seba Seba rather than a Hope & Anchor.  When the demographics change, so do the odds (Moceo was arrested and may have used his shop to launder money, so maybe we can get a li'l coke and cupcakes thing working).

And $50k a year is definitely high enough to support that level of luxury. Our median income is actually higher than bed-stuy, which, as mentioned, has several of such places.

This is the third comparison to Bed-Stuy that I've seen here recently.  Apples and oranges.  You just cannot compare the neighborhoods.  JH is not gentrifying, regardless of what some people say. The commercial rents in Bed-Stuy are much, much less than in JH, so people can afford to open a bistro/bar/whatever there. 

 

this thread (and so many others) reminds me of the Mad TV skit from the 90's "Lowered Expectations..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBqEUXA7s6g