Author Topic: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons  (Read 2811 times)

Offline abcdefghijk

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2021, 08:28:05 AM »
Cognitive Dissonance.

When I am on the Open Street of 34th Ave I see so many different faces, smiling and appreciating and even greeting me. All ages and nations. Happy.

Yet here there is so much unhappiness.

But the forum will be ending soon..and the wonderful Open Street of 34th Ave will be continuing.

Loving the Open Street of 34th and its positive impact on the folks of Jackson Heights  who use it.
...

Offline JHResident

  • Council Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 319
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2021, 08:50:52 AM »
JHResident, I have to ask, does someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.

If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?

Open Streets is a complete misuse of public resources.

The future of this city is looking pretty grim.
There are volunteers that move the barricades to the sidewalk at 800 PM. From 701 AM to 759 PM, drivers usually must move the barricades themselves.

Offline dssjh

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 5314
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2021, 10:33:49 AM »
For me it's not so relaxing walking along a poorly kept stretch of asphalt where nearly every intersection has a truck or van or utility vehicle parked crosswise just so they can do what they need to do.

Just seeing the above quote after posting to JHResident as follows:
[D]oes someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.
If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?

What a mess OS is.

i'm very sorry you were hurt -- and i hope the injury wasn't too bad. but i consistently see people park illegally in the bus stop in front of our building on 35th, often with bright lights turned on, so tthat's not an Open Streets problem, it's a bad driver/bad neighbor problem.

Online ChickenringNYC

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
  • Lived here since: 2021
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2021, 12:53:04 PM »
Cognitive dissonance could be a result of blissful ignorance.

Offline abcdefghijk

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2021, 12:57:53 PM »
Cognitive dissonance could be a result of blissful ignorance.

Our attitude towards life, determines life's attitude towards us.

John N. Mitchell. (and others)


Offline itsit

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 995
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2021, 07:55:17 AM »
 I believe the thinking for the big ask for all of 34th Ave to be closed imagined that the reality would be a smaller piece. The full stretch was designated as open streets and what many residents now see as overreach is a problem in the neighborhood for many. I do see more and more civil disobedience happening as residents take back the street. The 34th Ave corridor that the DOT meetings seemed to be pushing is a non-starter in Woodside and Corona along 34th no matter how much the cyclists want it. It's only JH that got stuck with 13hrs a day closures, 7 days a week far outpacing anything resembling Open Streets in all of NYC. Why just us?
  Sorry for our restaurants too as the word is out that it's hellish getting here in vehicles now and as one poster said, it's like driving in midtown. Lots of honking, waiting for multiple lights to advance one block. I hope they can survive on only local patrons as that's a terrific part of being here in JH having some many great food choices.
 

 

Offline CaptainFlannel

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1123
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2021, 08:12:39 AM »
Quote
Whose is in the middle? Not so many OS fans, is what I find sadly. Keep everything as is and in fact, give me more.

Sounds like you've talked to a very limited and skewed sample then. People who support OS want things changed. There's a wide variety of opinion about how to change it, but the one thing EVERYONE agrees on is that the barricades are not a good permanent solution.

Quote
Many of the 34th Ave residents are pleading for fewer hours, especially in the winter when they have to navigate the streets by foot, bikes, bus or vehicles and it's dangerous. But come hell or high water, others want the street closures untouched. Is this fair and/or advocating for change?

Sounds like you're talking to a small and skewed sample. If the residents of 34th Ave really dislike it so much, you'd think the OS opposition candidate in the general election for city council, which is the elected official at the city level that will have the biggest impact of 34 OS, would have gotten more than a couple hundreds votes.
Quote
For those residents on 34th ave, the outrageous closure time of not 4-6 or 8 hours but 13 HOURS of barricades to move and it's truly a hardship.

That's why instead of uselessly moaning and groaning on a BB that's going to shut down in a few weeks, it's better to be involved with DoT and the monthly community board meetings.

Quote
Voter turnout is so low here- I believe the last election was under 20%- that its a useless indicator of how the neighborhood feels about an issue, Open Streets or otherwise.

Anti-OS groups spent months going in the buildings along 34th Avenue to try and get people involved in their campaign against OS. They printed flyers and put them up in lobbies, stuck them under doors, held meetings in buildings, and one coop board president even talked openly at a CB3 meeting about going door-to-door to talk to people (which is likely a violation of his coop's occupancy agreement, but exactly who do you complain to when it's the board president doing it?). With so few people even bothering to register a protest vote in favor of the anti-OS candidate, it really says a lot about how little opposition there really is not only in the neighborhood, but also amongst residents of 34th Ave.

Quote
It's only JH that got stuck with 13hrs a day closures, 7 days a week far outpacing anything resembling Open Streets in all of NYC. Why just us?

As DOT noted at the CB3 meeting where they presented their initial plan, our neighborhood has high volunteer capacity. There's a well managed, large and dedicated group of people willing to move barricades. There's also a lot of people organizing events on OS.

Offline abcdefghijk

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2021, 08:16:38 AM »
Meanwhile the happy faces of those using the Open Street of 34th Ave show how joy and positivity win out.

Loving the Open Street of 34th Ave and how it has shown  that a neighborhood can come together and improve our lives.

The size of it is much appreciated.

Offline itsit

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 995
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2021, 09:10:56 AM »
 Don't really see the happy faces spoken about here when speaking about 34th Ave to those who live on or near the OS. Most of the residents I know are walking on the sidewalks on 34th ave, as they have had issues with motorized vehicles and don't want to chance another bad encounter.
                 Compromise on OS in 2022 = overall better outcome for all of JH.  :)

 

Offline abcdefghijk

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2021, 09:21:03 AM »
In life we see what we are.

If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.

The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.

I have much gratitude for its existence.

Online ChickenringNYC

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
  • Lived here since: 2021
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2021, 09:40:32 AM »
In life we see what we are.

If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.

The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.

I have much gratitude for its existence.
A friend of mine whose apartment faces the street closure had sent me, early on, a message about a neighborhood meeting to discuss it. I actually assumed he was in support of the closures, but later on when we met up he admitted he was really tired of it, his daughter's sleep was constantly being disturbed, his elderly parents nearby were having trouble moving the barricades, and there was going to be a block party DJ thing outside his window in the coming week. I was surprised and encouraged that a responsible liberal family man was adamantly against the street closure. So there's no way he's alive in this. I long for the day we return to a kind of normal if the pandemic ever ends. The anti street closure people are just not as loud, selfish and annoying as the Open Streets Brigade. Maybe too much else to do in life.

Offline abcdefghijk

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2021, 09:48:30 AM »
In life we see what we are.

If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.

The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.

I have much gratitude for its existence.
A friend of mine whose apartment faces the street closure had sent me, early on, a message about a neighborhood meeting to discuss it. I actually assumed he was in support of the closures, but later on when we met up he admitted he was really tired of it, his daughter's sleep was constantly being disturbed, his elderly parents nearby were having trouble moving the barricades, and there was going to be a block party DJ thing outside his window in the coming week. I was surprised and encouraged that a responsible liberal family man was adamantly against the street closure. So there's no way he's alive in this. I long for the day we return to a kind of normal if the pandemic ever ends. The anti street closure people are just not as loud, selfish and annoying as the Open Streets Brigade. Maybe too much else to do in life.

In statistics, there is something called a Chi Squared test. This is used to make sure that the number of the sample size is large enough...

In other words, that people aren't fooled by single anecdotal stories but rather...look at the big picture. The total numbers.

The numbers concerning the Open Street have spoken.

Happy that the Open Street of 34th Ave exists. And so say the statistics as well.

Offline itsit

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 995
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2021, 06:44:48 AM »
  Some of the posters, like the previous one, sound to me like comrades of a party that limits freedom of speech. Pablum. And as Chickenring stated, there are many people whose anecdotal stories make up a larger number than most posters assume. As those dissenters get their day in court, the right sizing will happen. Isolating people like the 78th st folks who are not getting services because of the closures certainly have a case! Lawsuits are, sadly, the method that we use to get the point across when people are closed to listening to other points of view.
   If people who like OS are so opposed to the barriers, why don't they try other solutions? There are many possibilities. And many residents would welcome a police/security presence on the ave, especially in the dark evenings when JH has traditionally had an uptick in crime. What's the delay here? And then what about the loss of a viable, several decades old bike lane on 34th Ave?Where is Transportation Alternatives when we need them? What is their plan for our seniors and less abled residents? It's truly unsafe to drive through people who might be walking the other way unaware there ever was a bike lane because it's unmarked. Many seniors are so afraid of anyone on e-bikes, they avoid the ave altogether or walk only in groups.
  The dog pee and poo greenway that used to be the median is a festering problem and no one, repeat no one, should be gardening in there any longer. It's a petri dish of bacteria and has become a latrine of pet waste running down the avenue. It's hard to watch how irresponsible the OS has become in terms of the whole neighborhood but in the year of coming lawsuits, we'll see the outcome. Here's hoping both sides are finally heard and right sizing, right barriers? are on the way in 2022.


Offline CaptainFlannel

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1123
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2021, 07:46:02 AM »
Quote
If people who like OS are so opposed to the barriers, why don't they try other solutions?....Where is Transportation Alternatives when we need them? What is their plan for our seniors and less abled residents?

You seem confused about who runs Open Streets and is responsible for a plan. The city runs the program via DoT, which partners with local groups to implement the program. Any changes to the barricades, such as the diverters the DoT presented to CB3 with an underwhelming response from pro- and anti- OS groups, has to come from DoT since this a program managed by DoT.

Does that clear things up for you about why people aren't just running around willy-nilly trying other solutions to a city program they aren't in charge of?

Quote
The dog pee and poo greenway that used to be the median is a festering problem and no one, repeat no one, should be gardening in there any longer. It's a petri dish of bacteria and has become a latrine of pet waste running down the avenue.

Well, it's winter so no one is gardening there right now. Did you by any chance notice the signs the 34th Avenue Coalition put up at the patches where people had planted food notifying that either the DoT or Parks Department had authorized  the Coalition to take over gardening on the median, that food grown in the median was unsafe, and inviting the gardener to work with the Coalition? Also, I think the issue is less about pet waste than it is about metals in the dirt making the food grown there unsafe to eat.

 
Quote
And many residents would welcome a police/security presence on the ave, especially in the dark evenings when JH has traditionally had an uptick in crime. What's the delay here?

lol, can you point to any actual data showing an uptick in crime along 34th Avenue since OS was implemented? Where do you think the money for security would come from? Do you really want either additional man hours from the NYPD to cover 34th Avenue (which means an increase in budget) or resources diverted from other areas to provide more foot patrol hours on 34th Avenue? (And why? Nobody is screaming about increased crime along 34th Avenue).
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 08:01:00 AM by CaptainFlannel »

Offline itsit

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 995
    • View Profile
Re: Rightsizing 34th Ave for residents of the ave & for different times/seasons
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2021, 08:07:15 AM »
 Sorry Captain, but it doesn't clear up a thing. Have been to many DOT meetings where they sit on their hands and at times, have implied they need to be fluid in response to the political headwinds on OS. Other OS look to be a seat of pants operation and it has been well documented in places where the neighborhoods push back and just move the barriers - or in at least one case- throw them in the Gowanus canal, their is community support. So no, there might be some official connections but DOT listen to higher powers and have been spineless with protection here.
 What other OS can you point to that are comparable to 34th Ave and are successful? Most references are Vanderbilt Ave and if we moved OS to 37th Ave, our commercial avenue with amenities and that is in need of help, we might be on the same playing field. On 34th Ave., it's so bloated and problematic running through a residential area. In other areas, the OS have been cast aside by unhappy neighbors at a high rate and keeping this status without significant compromise seems delusional at best.