Jackson Heights Life
Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: itsit on December 04, 2021, 08:26:34 AM
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So much debate has happened with 34th Open Streets. Can anyone please answer why the ave is
closed when it is pitch black out at 7:00 on a cold night? With proper data collection, this could be
right sized so that the timing of the closures matches usage, need and common sense safety. How
many streets are closed at this hour besides 34th Ave which is not well lit and is mostly residential?
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Beautiful day today for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
We are so lucky to have this.
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Beautiful day today for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
We are so lucky to have this.
Talk about thread trolling... Must you inject your two cents of blind praise in every single discussion of "Open" Streets, regardless of whether it is relevant in any way at all? Itsit is totally right on this.
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Beautiful day today for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
We are so lucky to have this.
Talk about thread trolling... Must you inject your two cents of blind praise in every single discussion
Yes. I love the Open Street.
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Thanks ChickenringNYC. It's an ominous sign that our current electeds and those on the way out - and the way in - are avoiding a town hall style debate here. Any format will do but both the sides of always open vs. always closed vs some common sense usage needs to be properly debated if the neighborhood can withstand this change. The fact is that Open Streets are great for some, some of the time. And not really so great for others and they tend to be impacted more hours.
The army of people who want to make this "their project" and have their names attached is equally scary. But the immediate concern I have is the lack safety and visibility on these dark, cold and sometimes rainy nights is that 34th Ave is desolate and the lack of vehicular traffic makes it unsafe for residents living on the ave or nearby.
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Thankfully the First Amendment allows for free speech.
Including positive comments as well.
Like positive comments for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
Thank you both to the First Amendment and the powers that have created the Open Street of 34th Ave.
So lucky to be in Jackson Heights for this positive wonderful project. I am so happy to be able to voice my gratitude for their hard work in creating this gift for our community.
In my opinion it is the right size.
:)
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Thankfully the First Amendment allows for free speech.
Including positive comments as well.
Like positive comments for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
Thank you both to the First Amendment and the powers that have created the Open Street of 34th Ave.
So lucky to be in Jackson Heights for this positive wonderful project. I am so happy to be able to voice my gratitude for their hard work in creating this gift for our community.
In my opinion it is the right size.
:)
Can you just create your own thread titled "ZOMG Open Streets is Amazing Echo Chamber La La La I Can't Hear You Because My Head is Stuck in the Asphalt" and post twenty times a day on it? None of us will bother you there, I promise.
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Thankfully the First Amendment allows for free speech.
Including positive comments as well.
Like positive comments for the Open Street of 34th Ave.
Thank you both to the First Amendment and the powers that have created the Open Street of 34th Ave.
So lucky to be in Jackson Heights for this positive wonderful project. I am so happy to be able to voice my gratitude for their hard work in creating this gift for our community.
In my opinion it is the right size.
:)
Can you just create your own thread titled "ZOMG Open Streets is Amazing Echo Chamber La La La I Can't Hear You Because My Head is Stuck in the Asphalt" and post twenty times a day on it? None of us will bother you there, I promise.
Oh ChickenringNYC...I know you secretly love my positive posts on the Open Street of 34th Ave which is so awesome in our neighborhood.
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Beech Court, am not quite sure how to read your post. Is it in support of rightsizing? That's my first instinct but am checking here.
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Can anyone please answer why the ave is closed when it is pitch black out at 7:00 on a cold night?
Because predictable hours need to be predictable and consistent. Because the OS gets consistently decent usage, even at 7 pm in the winter.
Any format will do but both the sides of always open vs. always closed vs some common sense usage needs to be properly debated if the neighborhood can withstand this change.
Seems like we had this all summer and fall long, culminating in a general election a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, a small group of people marched in protest of the open street on the open street, a second, even smaller group did that too, and for the cherry on top protested in front of our council member's office when the office wasn't open.
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Captain Flannel, do you have any data collected? We are near 34th and see it many hours of the day/night. Our eyes might not be perfect but it is a long, long stretch to say the street gets consistently decent use all 13hrs a day, seven days a week, in sun and rain, heat and cold. Really??
Even the busiest of businesses can now produce algorithms that show their busiest times and the lulls. Why is there so much resistance here to say that some of time, and I repeat, some of the time, it's just not busy and in fact there are a number of times it is empty. Fact. Let the streets cameras show us the results, please. What is there to hide? Otherwise, this would be a history making project for having supposed 100% support by all residents for every aspect of a public project. Who could really believe that is true?
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Captain Flannel, do you have any data collected? We are near 34th and see it many hours of the day/night. Our eyes might not be perfect but it is a long, long stretch to say the street gets consistently decent use all 13hrs a day, seven days a week, in sun and rain, heat and cold. Really??
The DoT does. If you had attended any of the CB3 meetings that DoT presented their plans, you'd know there is data. Also, I have eyes.
Even the busiest of businesses can now produce algorithms that show their busiest times and the lulls. Why is there so much resistance here to say that some of time, and I repeat, some of the time, it's just not busy and in fact there are a number of times it is empty. Fact. Let the streets cameras show us the results, please. What is there to hide? Otherwise, this would be a history making project for having supposed 100% support by all residents for every aspect of a public project. Who could really believe that is true?
The DoT's data says otherwise. Considering that the opponents of 34 OS don't understand traffic pattern ebbs and flows, falsely claim from seeing one empty block means that the entire 1.2 mile stretch is empty, moan and groan that the street is empty during bad weather and why oh why can't the hours be adjusted on a hour by hour basis according to Doppler radar, and consistently fail to see the people actually on the street (with ridiculous pictures posted online claiming the street is "empty" when you can see pedestrians on OS in the picture), I'll take DoT's data over false narratives any day.
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Beech Court, am not quite sure how to read your post. Is it in support of rightsizing? That's my first instinct but am checking here.
This is a thread and one message follows another. So did mine.
No explanation given.... no explanation needed! It should be obvious.
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Hooray for following a post with a reply!
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Hooray for following a post with a reply!
Years ago, on this forum I noticed something. That no-one ever changes their mind. Ever. No matter how much debate or logic or persuasion by posters. I believe that in the history of the internet, not a single person has been swayed by the arguments of another poster.
It seems to be an immutable law. On the internet, a mind that's made up...stays made up.
This includes politics, open streets, plane noise etc, etc. You name it.
Thank you to this forum for teaching me the important lesson...that it is futile to counter...or even debate... with people online.
Mostly, that only leads to anger from others that their world view is not being upheld.
As this forum comes to a close...I reiterate that this wonderful learning curve, (the forum) has been invaluable. For my future online. Much appreciated to everyone for teaching me.
I have also learned that being online is, however, excellent to giving voice to a person's own opinion. As long as they don't expect to change others' mindsets. Which I definitely now have much experience in knowing is impossible in an online environment.
And also being very aware that some folks get very mad at you when you don't agree with them.
(Psychologically, somehow, online, their world view is threatened)
That being said,
HOORAY for the OPEN STREET OF 34TH AVE. It is the exact right size IMO.
And HOORAY for the life long lessons I have learned on this online forum...which I will take into the future!
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Indeed, this forum post perfectly encapsulates the futility. OP didn't ask "Can anyone please answer why the ave is
closed when it is pitch black out at 7:00 on a cold night?" because OP really wanted an answer for why. OP already knows why. It's just that OP disagrees with the answer, and instead of wanting to come to some kind of understanding other people's POV on the subject, just wants an opportunity to tell the people who answer they are wrong.
It's transparent, and is an example of a bad faith discussion.
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Indeed, this forum post perfectly encapsulates the futility. OP didn't ask "Can anyone please answer why the ave is
closed when it is pitch black out at 7:00 on a cold night?" because OP really wanted an answer for why. OP already knows why. It's just that OP disagrees with the answer, and instead of wanting to come to some kind of understanding other people's POV on the subject, just wants an opportunity to tell the people who answer they are wrong.
It's transparent, and is an example of a bad faith discussion.
I am, however, curious if the OP really can't tell that everyone is fully aware of the OP's ploy.
We are, all of us, "online savvy" nowadays...even little kids are in 2021...and does the OP genuinely believe that these bad faith posts aren't fully transparent to everyone on the forum?
It is far more honest and honorable for the OP to simply say "I believe that the open street should revert to how it was" (Or whatever they believe)
Than to attempt to unsuccessfully lead folks down some rabbit-hole.
Maybe the future of online discussion is that folks will have learned not to argue...because it is pointless.
Much like we mostly know not to argue when we meet a random stranger on the street with a different opinion. (Unless we want to waste our time)
The internet is pretty new...so I figure eventually folks will evolve concerning our interactions on it.
That being said...
I LOVE THE OPEN STREET of 34th Ave.
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Hooray for following a post with a reply!
Years ago, on this forum I noticed something. That no-one ever changes their mind. Ever. No matter how much debate or logic or persuasion by posters. I believe that in the history of the internet, not a single person has been swayed by the arguments of another poster.
I have to disagree.
Not everyone knows everything all the time. People can and do change their minds all the time. The key is in the presentation and reputation of the presenter.
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Hooray for following a post with a reply!
Years ago, on this forum I noticed something. That no-one ever changes their mind. Ever. No matter how much debate or logic or persuasion by posters. I believe that in the history of the internet, not a single person has been swayed by the arguments of another poster.
I have to disagree.
Not everyone knows everything all the time. People can and do change their minds all the time. The key is in the presentation and reputation of the presenter.
You are free to disagree. But it's not my observation of folks' behavior on this forum.
Maybe in real life...that might be the case. Yes. Absolutely. But not online.
Online forums and chats etc... are a completely futile environment to get folks to change their minds.
That's what I have seen over the years on this forum. And posts elsewhere online.
I believe in the future folks will video themselves talking...and post the video...and then, possibly, yes folks may change their minds.
That'll be the next step for forums. WEB 3.0.
But here in WEB 2.0, online words alone are simply not enough...to alter folks' minds...IMO.
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you are absolutely correct that no one ever changes their mind, nor does anyone ever admit to a misstep. you are the poster person for that truism. bravo/a.
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you are absolutely correct that no one ever changes their mind, nor does anyone ever admit to a misstep. you are the poster person for that truism. bravo/a.
As Youtubers say, Haters are my Motivators.
We are coming to the end of the Forum, time for a truce.
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Also talking about missteps...here's a post of mine. Shock and horror! An apology!
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« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2021, 09:27:24 PM »
Quote from: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 08:23:00 PM
Quote from: abcdefghijk on May 16, 2021, 07:40:30 PM
I did not mean to be abusive. I apologize if it was taken as such.
I am trying to think about this issue from both sides...and attempting to understand why it's so polarized.
Is it the polarized times we live in?
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Now, what were you saying about your own missteps again?
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Calling for truces and still baiting people?
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Calling for truces and still baiting people?
Perhaps now might be the perfect time to truly invoke Gladys Gilbert.
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since it's winding down, can you please point to one instance where you've changed your mind? do you still believe that we need to decommission LGA?
yes or no, please. not a 250 word smirk.
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since it's winding down, can you please point to one instance where you've changed your mind? do you still believe that we need to decommission LGA?
yes or no, please. not a 250 word smirk.
Only when you admit the fact that true Marxism disallows the ownership of private property.
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As the OP, I've changed my mind plenty. Often issues are presented on this forum and other sources of news and info that do help one sift through the morass. On the particular topic here of the 34th Ave Open Streets, I do feel that facts from the DOT are useless and the many forums and meetings have been mostly a waste of time. The lack of knowledge of the particulars of the were appalling by DOT staff and Jason and others who are paid to smooth things over but not solve anything that is a particular annoyance. Not sure who is responsible but that's another thread. If the proposed idea about closing Northern Blvd to regular vehicular traffic as proposed by another elected goes anywhere, I hope there is a public forum in which to comment on that.
As for changes, I do see some areas where the Open Streets are good as in the morning when the many schools on 34th Ave are inundated with students and parents and it is a zoo, much worse in bad weather too. This opening IS good and helpful. But the thirteen hours!! Just no because it's not needed and not used. It just isn't no matter how much people want to say otherwise and cameras posted (which the DOT hasn't done yet) would detail high/low traffic.
For the tired residents of 34th ave and nearby streets, it's too much. For those who live a few blocks away who think it's swell, I like to ask what if they closed off your street and dogs peed and pooed everywhere and it became a hazard for less mobile residents and oh god, the dreaded motorized bikes...and they say "Oh my street couldn't close for this or that reason" or people wouldn't like that street to be closed...and so on. You don't hear a loud level of complaining much because most of the people adversely affected are weary, working class residents who feel the time they would take out of their lives to say their thoughts would be a waste of their time. The heavily networked folks - yes, me and Obama like saying folks - are the super loud voices here.
The little guys are being overlooked and even though some think this is not true and that these comments are obviously biased, I stand by them and do think there is value in repeating the issues. Courage to speak your values is something we could use more of and I personally like a thoughtful debate. FYI two other topics were hotly debated here over the years that did change and one was the use of our many private co-op gardens (which are never counted in the green space debate btw) being available to use for children. And also the segregation of our public schools in JH which is awful for the being touted as such a diverse area, but not now, finally, a mom from IS145 is actively opening that debate again. So change might be slow but it happens.
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Calling for truces and still baiting people?
Perhaps now might be the perfect time to truly invoke Gladys Gilbert.
I spoke to dear Gladys. She says she has far better things to do. But she did offer this:
ABCDEFGHIJK
An insult used in chatrooms and on Facebook.
A- amazing
B- beautiful
C- classy
D- darling
E- energetic
F- fantastic
G- great
H- hot
I- I'm
J- just
K- kidding
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I do feel that facts from the DOT are useless
21st century right there folks.
facts are useless. feelings are more important.
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Great, so open streets is a Marxism thing?? Ugh... That explains a lot.
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Great, so open streets is a Marxism thing?? Ugh... That explains a lot.
you found us out
(https://i.imgflip.com/5xby6m.jpg)
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Let's put "facts from the DOT" in quotes. After all, they are the ones that recently put a bike rack in an bird crap covered underpass, have put loading zones in areas of the neighborhood with commercial lots already available (corner of 74th and Northern) and said things in meetings like we don't have any nearby bike lanes in Jackson Heights and we have a pretty great one on 31st Ave, just over from 34th. Huh? These are their "facts" and that's why I am mystified by their "facts" because they are anything but true about the neighborhood.
Also what genius in the MTA who might be working with the DOT eliminated the bus stop in front of the physical therapy and radiation center and left the ones in front of Dunkin Donuts and the car wash on Northern Blvd? Does these people even visit the area before these changes?More neighborhood mysteries...
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Great, so open streets is a Marxism thing?? Ugh... That explains a lot.
No. Some folks on this forum call themselves Marxists.
But they own private property.
Owing private property is totally against Marxism.
And would make Karl Marx turn in his grave.
Alas no one knows Marx's view on the Open Street because he is dead. And turning in his grave...like I mentioned.
However, I love the Open Street of 34th Ave and thank the DOT and all the powers that have gifted this fantastic resource to the people of Jackson Heights.
And I am also definitely not a Marxist.
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However, I love the Open Street of 34th Ave and thank the DOT and all the powers that have gifted this fantastic resource to the people of Jackson Heights.
I'm curious what leads you to love this nuisance. Do you use it frequently, or is it the side effect of quietude that endears it to you? To me it's a minor nuisance that I can tolerate, despite the need to drive around the block and move a barricade or two to get home maybe once or twice a day. If you really love it that much, then maybe it's best that it exists, if only to make one person happier. Just, please don't expect me to celebrate with you, unless you're out there moving the barricades for me. Enjoy your open street while I grumble.
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However, I love the Open Street of 34th Ave and thank the DOT and all the powers that have gifted this fantastic resource to the people of Jackson Heights.
I'm curious what leads you to love this nuisance. Do you use it frequently, or is it the side effect of quietude that endears it to you? To me it's a minor nuisance that I can tolerate, despite the need to drive around the block and move a barricade or two to get home maybe once or twice a day. If you really love it that much, then maybe it's best that it exists, if only to make one person happier. Just, please don't expect me to celebrate with you, unless you're out there moving the barricades for me. Enjoy your open street while I grumble.
I am curious, as well.
If a person can't enjoy life and the small pleasures it offers...(like a great stroll down the Open Street of 34th Ave)...then when exactly does the enjoyment begin?
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Let's put "facts from the DOT" in quotes. After all, they are the ones that recently put a bike rack in an bird crap covered underpass, have put loading zones in areas of the neighborhood with commercial lots already available (corner of 74th and Northern) and said things in meetings like we don't have any nearby bike lanes in Jackson Heights and we have a pretty great one on 31st Ave, just over from 34th. Huh? These are their "facts" and that's why I am mystified by their "facts" because they are anything but true about the neighborhood.
You seem really unclear about the difference between data and decisions you don't like, as well as what a fact is. Perhaps since you're online you could look at an online dictionary.
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Nope. Super clear, Captain. Not everyone agrees about the Open Streets is how it lies.
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^Of course everyone doesn't agree about 34 OS. But the DoT having collected pedestrian counts at multiple times of days over the course of months which show high usage doesn't become less of a fact because you don't like where they placed a bike rack or a DoT employee misspoke about bike lanes in the neighborhood.
Getting riled up over a program that the community has embraced - and let's remember the candidate for City Council who ran openly against 34 OS garnered all of a few hundred votes - really doesn't seem like a good use of anyone's energy. Better to advocate for changes to OS that will improve it to make it better (like a plan that eliminates the need for barricades to keep pedestrians protected and directs electric bikes and scooters being used for transportation purposes to streets with bike lanes).
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However, I love the Open Street of 34th Ave and thank the DOT and all the powers that have gifted this fantastic resource to the people of Jackson Heights.
I'm curious what leads you to love this nuisance. Do you use it frequently, or is it the side effect of quietude that endears it to you? To me it's a minor nuisance that I can tolerate, despite the need to drive around the block and move a barricade or two to get home maybe once or twice a day. If you really love it that much, then maybe it's best that it exists, if only to make one person happier. Just, please don't expect me to celebrate with you, unless you're out there moving the barricades for me. Enjoy your open street while I grumble.
I am curious, as well.
If a person can't enjoy life and the small pleasures it offers...(like a great stroll down the Open Street of 34th Ave)...then when exactly does the enjoyment begin?
Granted a stroll can be enjoyed. In fact I enjoy strolling throughout the city, despite the lack of Open Streets elsewhere. But I grew up walking on sidewalks, and not jaywalking. I also enjoy driving, except driving in Jackson Heights during the Open Streets is like being in Midtown. But a stroll doesn't take long. Why does the street have to be closed for 13 hours so you can stroll on the street instead of on the sidewalk?
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People act as if before "Open Streets", 34th Ave was some kind of pedestrian hell hole where the sidewalks were overcrowded with people, standing shoulder to shoulder as they trudged the cramped walkway to and from from their.. um.. where exactly are all these people going?
For me it's not so relaxing walking along a poorly kept stretch of asphalt where nearly every intersection has a truck or van or utility vehicle parked crosswise just so they can do what they need to do. Plus it's ugly.
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and people act as if there was zero traffic on Northern Boulevard and 35th avenue (where i've lived in an avenue facing apartment for 20 years) before "open streets." i haven't seen a bit of difference. same annoyances, same periods of quiet (like right this minute).
and why do you find 34th avenue "ugly"? uglier than 37th? or Northern?
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To clarify, I find delivery trucks parked sideways in the intersections ugly.
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JHResident, I have to ask, does someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.
If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?
Open Streets is a complete misuse of public resources.
The future of this city is looking pretty grim.
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For me it's not so relaxing walking along a poorly kept stretch of asphalt where nearly every intersection has a truck or van or utility vehicle parked crosswise just so they can do what they need to do.
Just seeing the above quote after posting to JHResident as follows:
[D]oes someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.
If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?
Chickenring, is that what was blinding me perhaps? - a delivery truck at 6 o'clock in the evening? It was there for 5 to 10 minutes - maybe more. I wrote to DOT/Qns Commish about my fall and I will amend it if it wasn't likely a car but a delivery truck. (A woman who found me laying on the ground told me it was a car.)
What a mess OS is.
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Yes, OS is a mess. And advocating for change is a middle ground. Whose is in the middle? Not so many OS fans, is what I find sadly. Keep everything as is and in fact, give me more. Many of the 34th Ave residents are pleading for fewer hours, especially in the winter when they have to navigate the streets by foot, bikes, bus or vehicles and it's dangerous. But come hell or high water, others want the street closures untouched. Is this fair and/or advocating for change?
For those residents on 34th ave, the outrageous closure time of not 4-6 or 8 hours but 13 HOURS of barricades to move and it's truly a hardship. Saw a man with a WW2 hat last week gingerly moving the metal barriers at 76th street last week to get to his garage and saying how frustrated he is with the city not listening to the residents about OS here. Add onto that it's MORE than 13 hours with trash pickup and street cleaning and these residents are fed up!! 6:15/6:30 garbage cans moving is insult to injury and very noisy!
Voter turnout is so low here- I believe the last election was under 20%- that its a useless indicator of how the neighborhood feels about an issue, Open Streets or otherwise. Someone needs to do a fair and impartial assessment of the 34th OS and hopefully, it will not get litigious but it's certainly looking like it will go that way. The supporters of OS could compromise at any time...others are listening.
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Cognitive Dissonance.
When I am on the Open Street of 34th Ave I see so many different faces, smiling and appreciating and even greeting me. All ages and nations. Happy.
Yet here there is so much unhappiness.
But the forum will be ending soon..and the wonderful Open Street of 34th Ave will be continuing.
Loving the Open Street of 34th and its positive impact on the folks of Jackson Heights who use it.
...
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JHResident, I have to ask, does someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.
If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?
Open Streets is a complete misuse of public resources.
The future of this city is looking pretty grim.
There are volunteers that move the barricades to the sidewalk at 800 PM. From 701 AM to 759 PM, drivers usually must move the barricades themselves.
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For me it's not so relaxing walking along a poorly kept stretch of asphalt where nearly every intersection has a truck or van or utility vehicle parked crosswise just so they can do what they need to do.
Just seeing the above quote after posting to JHResident as follows:
[D]oes someone come around in the evening and move barriers for "Nighttime OS"? I had to deal with a car parked in the crosswalk recently (on 34th) and the car's LED(?) lights beaming onto the sidewalk blinded me; couldn't see a thing. I tripped and fell. I was injured.
If each driver coming home has to do that, then it happens a lot, no? Or is it a designated person doing it at nightfall along the whole or a section of the OS?
What a mess OS is.
i'm very sorry you were hurt -- and i hope the injury wasn't too bad. but i consistently see people park illegally in the bus stop in front of our building on 35th, often with bright lights turned on, so tthat's not an Open Streets problem, it's a bad driver/bad neighbor problem.
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Cognitive dissonance could be a result of blissful ignorance.
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Cognitive dissonance could be a result of blissful ignorance.
Our attitude towards life, determines life's attitude towards us.
John N. Mitchell. (and others)
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I believe the thinking for the big ask for all of 34th Ave to be closed imagined that the reality would be a smaller piece. The full stretch was designated as open streets and what many residents now see as overreach is a problem in the neighborhood for many. I do see more and more civil disobedience happening as residents take back the street. The 34th Ave corridor that the DOT meetings seemed to be pushing is a non-starter in Woodside and Corona along 34th no matter how much the cyclists want it. It's only JH that got stuck with 13hrs a day closures, 7 days a week far outpacing anything resembling Open Streets in all of NYC. Why just us?
Sorry for our restaurants too as the word is out that it's hellish getting here in vehicles now and as one poster said, it's like driving in midtown. Lots of honking, waiting for multiple lights to advance one block. I hope they can survive on only local patrons as that's a terrific part of being here in JH having some many great food choices.
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Whose is in the middle? Not so many OS fans, is what I find sadly. Keep everything as is and in fact, give me more.
Sounds like you've talked to a very limited and skewed sample then. People who support OS want things changed. There's a wide variety of opinion about how to change it, but the one thing EVERYONE agrees on is that the barricades are not a good permanent solution.
Many of the 34th Ave residents are pleading for fewer hours, especially in the winter when they have to navigate the streets by foot, bikes, bus or vehicles and it's dangerous. But come hell or high water, others want the street closures untouched. Is this fair and/or advocating for change?
Sounds like you're talking to a small and skewed sample. If the residents of 34th Ave really dislike it so much, you'd think the OS opposition candidate in the general election for city council, which is the elected official at the city level that will have the biggest impact of 34 OS, would have gotten more than a couple hundreds votes.
For those residents on 34th ave, the outrageous closure time of not 4-6 or 8 hours but 13 HOURS of barricades to move and it's truly a hardship.
That's why instead of uselessly moaning and groaning on a BB that's going to shut down in a few weeks, it's better to be involved with DoT and the monthly community board meetings.
Voter turnout is so low here- I believe the last election was under 20%- that its a useless indicator of how the neighborhood feels about an issue, Open Streets or otherwise.
Anti-OS groups spent months going in the buildings along 34th Avenue to try and get people involved in their campaign against OS. They printed flyers and put them up in lobbies, stuck them under doors, held meetings in buildings, and one coop board president even talked openly at a CB3 meeting about going door-to-door to talk to people (which is likely a violation of his coop's occupancy agreement, but exactly who do you complain to when it's the board president doing it?). With so few people even bothering to register a protest vote in favor of the anti-OS candidate, it really says a lot about how little opposition there really is not only in the neighborhood, but also amongst residents of 34th Ave.
It's only JH that got stuck with 13hrs a day closures, 7 days a week far outpacing anything resembling Open Streets in all of NYC. Why just us?
As DOT noted at the CB3 meeting where they presented their initial plan, our neighborhood has high volunteer capacity. There's a well managed, large and dedicated group of people willing to move barricades. There's also a lot of people organizing events on OS.
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Meanwhile the happy faces of those using the Open Street of 34th Ave show how joy and positivity win out.
Loving the Open Street of 34th Ave and how it has shown that a neighborhood can come together and improve our lives.
The size of it is much appreciated.
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Don't really see the happy faces spoken about here when speaking about 34th Ave to those who live on or near the OS. Most of the residents I know are walking on the sidewalks on 34th ave, as they have had issues with motorized vehicles and don't want to chance another bad encounter.
Compromise on OS in 2022 = overall better outcome for all of JH. :)
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In life we see what we are.
If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.
The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.
I have much gratitude for its existence.
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In life we see what we are.
If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.
The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.
I have much gratitude for its existence.
A friend of mine whose apartment faces the street closure had sent me, early on, a message about a neighborhood meeting to discuss it. I actually assumed he was in support of the closures, but later on when we met up he admitted he was really tired of it, his daughter's sleep was constantly being disturbed, his elderly parents nearby were having trouble moving the barricades, and there was going to be a block party DJ thing outside his window in the coming week. I was surprised and encouraged that a responsible liberal family man was adamantly against the street closure. So there's no way he's alive in this. I long for the day we return to a kind of normal if the pandemic ever ends. The anti street closure people are just not as loud, selfish and annoying as the Open Streets Brigade. Maybe too much else to do in life.
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In life we see what we are.
If a person sees unhappiness...they should look at and deal with the unhappiness inside themselves first.
The Open Street of 34th Ave is a wonderful resource.
I have much gratitude for its existence.
A friend of mine whose apartment faces the street closure had sent me, early on, a message about a neighborhood meeting to discuss it. I actually assumed he was in support of the closures, but later on when we met up he admitted he was really tired of it, his daughter's sleep was constantly being disturbed, his elderly parents nearby were having trouble moving the barricades, and there was going to be a block party DJ thing outside his window in the coming week. I was surprised and encouraged that a responsible liberal family man was adamantly against the street closure. So there's no way he's alive in this. I long for the day we return to a kind of normal if the pandemic ever ends. The anti street closure people are just not as loud, selfish and annoying as the Open Streets Brigade. Maybe too much else to do in life.
In statistics, there is something called a Chi Squared test. This is used to make sure that the number of the sample size is large enough...
In other words, that people aren't fooled by single anecdotal stories but rather...look at the big picture. The total numbers.
The numbers concerning the Open Street have spoken.
Happy that the Open Street of 34th Ave exists. And so say the statistics as well.
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Some of the posters, like the previous one, sound to me like comrades of a party that limits freedom of speech. Pablum. And as Chickenring stated, there are many people whose anecdotal stories make up a larger number than most posters assume. As those dissenters get their day in court, the right sizing will happen. Isolating people like the 78th st folks who are not getting services because of the closures certainly have a case! Lawsuits are, sadly, the method that we use to get the point across when people are closed to listening to other points of view.
If people who like OS are so opposed to the barriers, why don't they try other solutions? There are many possibilities. And many residents would welcome a police/security presence on the ave, especially in the dark evenings when JH has traditionally had an uptick in crime. What's the delay here? And then what about the loss of a viable, several decades old bike lane on 34th Ave?Where is Transportation Alternatives when we need them? What is their plan for our seniors and less abled residents? It's truly unsafe to drive through people who might be walking the other way unaware there ever was a bike lane because it's unmarked. Many seniors are so afraid of anyone on e-bikes, they avoid the ave altogether or walk only in groups.
The dog pee and poo greenway that used to be the median is a festering problem and no one, repeat no one, should be gardening in there any longer. It's a petri dish of bacteria and has become a latrine of pet waste running down the avenue. It's hard to watch how irresponsible the OS has become in terms of the whole neighborhood but in the year of coming lawsuits, we'll see the outcome. Here's hoping both sides are finally heard and right sizing, right barriers? are on the way in 2022.
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If people who like OS are so opposed to the barriers, why don't they try other solutions?....Where is Transportation Alternatives when we need them? What is their plan for our seniors and less abled residents?
You seem confused about who runs Open Streets and is responsible for a plan. The city runs the program via DoT, which partners with local groups to implement the program. Any changes to the barricades, such as the diverters the DoT presented to CB3 with an underwhelming response from pro- and anti- OS groups, has to come from DoT since this a program managed by DoT.
Does that clear things up for you about why people aren't just running around willy-nilly trying other solutions to a city program they aren't in charge of?
The dog pee and poo greenway that used to be the median is a festering problem and no one, repeat no one, should be gardening in there any longer. It's a petri dish of bacteria and has become a latrine of pet waste running down the avenue.
Well, it's winter so no one is gardening there right now. Did you by any chance notice the signs the 34th Avenue Coalition put up at the patches where people had planted food notifying that either the DoT or Parks Department had authorized the Coalition to take over gardening on the median, that food grown in the median was unsafe, and inviting the gardener to work with the Coalition? Also, I think the issue is less about pet waste than it is about metals in the dirt making the food grown there unsafe to eat.
And many residents would welcome a police/security presence on the ave, especially in the dark evenings when JH has traditionally had an uptick in crime. What's the delay here?
lol, can you point to any actual data showing an uptick in crime along 34th Avenue since OS was implemented? Where do you think the money for security would come from? Do you really want either additional man hours from the NYPD to cover 34th Avenue (which means an increase in budget) or resources diverted from other areas to provide more foot patrol hours on 34th Avenue? (And why? Nobody is screaming about increased crime along 34th Avenue).
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Sorry Captain, but it doesn't clear up a thing. Have been to many DOT meetings where they sit on their hands and at times, have implied they need to be fluid in response to the political headwinds on OS. Other OS look to be a seat of pants operation and it has been well documented in places where the neighborhoods push back and just move the barriers - or in at least one case- throw them in the Gowanus canal, their is community support. So no, there might be some official connections but DOT listen to higher powers and have been spineless with protection here.
What other OS can you point to that are comparable to 34th Ave and are successful? Most references are Vanderbilt Ave and if we moved OS to 37th Ave, our commercial avenue with amenities and that is in need of help, we might be on the same playing field. On 34th Ave., it's so bloated and problematic running through a residential area. In other areas, the OS have been cast aside by unhappy neighbors at a high rate and keeping this status without significant compromise seems delusional at best.
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Recently, I seem to recall another person who threatened legal action when he didn't get what he wanted. When he didn't want to accept the majority decision.
But Democracy won out.
HOORAY for Democracy!
Thanking the DOT for the OPEN STREET OF 34th Ave.
How wonderful and joyful and pleasant it truly is.
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^^Well, it should. You specifically asked:
If people who like OS are so opposed to the barriers, why don't they try other solutions?
The answer is that the people who like OS don't have the authority to try other solutions. Or were up unclear of the grammar of your question?
Turning to DoT, there's no mystery why that city agency has taken so long on this. There was an election in November for mayor. and city council. Undoubtedly, DoT decided to take it's sweet time to wait to see what the next mayoral administration and city council was going to be like. It also gave DoT time collect data on usage. They've presented one possible solution - the diverters - and you're still here complaining about why there aren't other solutions.
In other areas, the OS have been cast aside by unhappy neighbors at a high rate and keeping this status without significant compromise seems delusional at best.
However, in this area there is high community support. One reason our OS is so successful is because of the well-managed, large, and committed group of volunteers willing to come out twice a day and move barricades. For almost a year and a half.
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Thank you to the volunteers who manage the wonderful OPEN STREET of 34th Ave so well.
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Someday, it will become clear on this subject of rightsizing 34th ave OS, that there are people with legit different views. One side claims dominance now and says it has all sorts of support. Is this accurate? Has data collection been done to any extent and where has it been publicized? We need details on usage, like every chain restaurant and supermarket posts, for busy/slow hours. Then we can have a town hall style meeting with most affected parties at the table first. Rewind from the pandemic urgency to a more sophisticated plan.
And then we might see something different happen with the physical situation. So far, just metal barriers, no diverters, no cones or anything that had been discussed at meetings. Heavy metal barriers, period. Tiny confusing signs also and many people still really do not know who runs the whole thing. Volunteers or the city? Both? Spell it out clearly.
Outdoor dining is getting a case by case review which sounds great because some of the outdoor spaces are terrific and some are awful. Lots of other issues attached to outdoor dining. And we have lots of issues with OS and propose the same type of review for 34th Ave. Run the numbers, take the polls and knock on doors (no one we know has had anyone ask, ever in an official capacity about the impact of the closure). Look at footage from all hours of operations. Let's bring in professionals who know the whole city and can give an unbiased view of 34th Ave. See if it is the right JH street, first and then if it needs substantial alteration in length and timing.
Needs a substantial review stat. Patient in distress.
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What a beautiful day it was today on the marvelous Open Street of 34th Ave.
All those smiling faces.
So different to the sourness elsewhere.
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Has data collection been done to any extent and where has it been publicized? We need details on usage, like every chain restaurant and supermarket posts, for busy/slow hours.
If yo attended the DOT presentation to CB3 in the fall on its initial plans youknow the answer is, yes, the DOT has done data collection. The deck was available from DOT. Did you request it? Goodness knows enough of the anti-OS contingent were in attendance (and mucking up the CB3 chat with their ongoing commentary to the presentation) that the deck could have been requested and distributed amongst their various social media groups.
I have no idea what data on usage you think chain restaurants and supermarkets post.
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Interesting. Yet again, facts are ignored by those who don't get their way.
I seem to recall someone else who recently used that tactic. But happily the truth won out.
:)
Another beautiful day ahead for lucky Jackson Heights users of the Open Street of 34th Ave.
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Here's the type of graph info I'm referring to about how busy 34th ave is at different times of the day
from Google business*. They are pretty much used everywhere now but maybe some haven't seen them yet. Can be obtained from Google business, that is unless you believe that 34th Ave is always consistently busy all 13hours and all 7 days of the week and there is no need for an analytics.
Just ran into a friend whose daughter is circling around 34th Ave looking for a place to pick her up for doc appt. She's so frustrated and says who can you talk to?? No one, there is no one...she says.
Have you seen the MTA Data? Useless and ineptly collected is all I have to say. We need outside professionals who have done this before and who will take time to really understand the neighborhood and avoid random closures and placements as the MTA has done. Real facts please!
*Popular times graph from Google Business: This graph shows how busy your location typically is during different times of the day. ... Wait time estimates: This data shows how long a customer would have to wait before they receive service during different times of the day. It also shows the peak wait time for each day of the week.
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Here's the type of graph info I'm referring to about how busy 34th ave is at different times of the day
from Google business*. They are pretty much used everywhere now but maybe some haven't seen them yet. Can be obtained from Google business, that is unless you believe that 34th Ave is always consistently busy all 13hours and all 7 days of the week and there is no need for an analytics.
Just ran into a friend whose daughter is circling around 34th Ave looking for a place to pick her up for doc appt. She's so frustrated and says who can you talk to?? No one, there is no one...she says.
Have you seen the MTA Data? Useless and ineptly collected is all I have to say. We need outside professionals who have done this before and who will take time to really understand the neighborhood and avoid random closures and placements as the MTA has done. Real facts please!
*Popular times graph from Google Business: This graph shows how busy your location typically is during different times of the day. ... Wait time estimates: This data shows how long a customer would have to wait before they receive service during different times of the day. It also shows the peak wait time for each day of the week.
MTA data? Are you simply making up stuff as you go along in some kind of word salad?
https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/34th-ave-open-street-cb3-oct2021.pdf
That's the DOT power point for 34th ave.
77% for.
23% against.
The numbers have spoken.
HOORAY FOR THE OPEN STREET of 34TH AVE.
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There's lots of pablum out there...
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(https://c.tenor.com/6ftxhrKTowgAAAAC/monty-python-no-it-isnt.gif)
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77% of folks agree that 34th Ave should be a wonderful OPEN STREET.
Some of those 23% are denigrating and denying the 77% their opinions.
HOORAY for the 77%
HOORAY for the OPEN STEET of 34th Ave!
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice”
MLK
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Here's the type of graph info I'm referring to about how busy 34th ave is at different times of the day
from Google business*. They are pretty much used everywhere now but maybe some haven't seen them yet.
I'm not seeing a graph, but I think I know what you are talking about. It's marketing and this is not information a supermarket or restaurant or Trader Joe's collects or posts. If I understand it correctly, this is just information Google tracks through smartphones and can tell people searching for a business what foot traffic is typically like (this would the same sort of tracking that lets Google Maps suggest an alternate route when there's an accident and slow down on a highway).
I have a Google business account, a Google business profile, but my business isn't retail so I don't bother with any of that kind of stuff. I'm not sure if there's a fee a business has to pay to Google for displaying that info, if it's offered as a way to satisfy users, or just given as free a la Google Analytics since it provides a ton of information to Google.
Can be obtained from Google business, that is unless you believe that 34th Ave is always consistently busy all 13hours and all 7 days of the week and there is no need for an analytics
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I don't think DoT has created Google Business accounts for specific Open Streets, nor would I expect them to. Also, I don't think foot traffic is consistent on 34 OS, because I understand how traffic works. It's just much higher than what the most rabid critics claim (which is it's mostly empty most of the time, no matter the season).
Have you seen the MTA Data? Useless and ineptly collected is all I have to say. We need outside professionals who have done this before and who will take time to really understand the neighborhood and avoid random closures and placements as the MTA has done. Real facts please!
Yes I have, and if you have, I am puzzled why you keep asking where the data is. Seems like a pretty disingenuous questions since what it seems like what you really mean "I've seen their data, and I just don't believe it."
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It would be a beautiful Christmas present to have all parties involved recognize the plusses and the problematic regarding the 34th Ave Open Streets project. :)
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Covid surge = greater need for closing the street. C'mon Omicron! Prove the NYT and the WaPo right and the South American researchers wrong! We can do it!
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Covid surge = greater need for closing the street. C'mon Omicron! Prove the NYT and the WaPo right and the South American researchers wrong! We can do it!
more importantly, we need to close every business in NYC immediately. we know all the variants spread more quickly indoors, so we must stop people from being in contact with strangers. as you are a scientist, i am sure you agree.
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It would be a beautiful Christmas present to have all parties involved recognize the plusses and the problematic regarding the 34th Ave Open Streets project. :)
The Open Street of 34th Ave is a fantastic Christmas present to the people of Jackson Heights.
Thank you, Santa...and whoever else is involved in the fabulous project.
It's a most wonderful Christmas gift during these pandemic times to be out in the open where it's safe...and not stuck indoors where it's less safe.
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Covid surge = greater need for closing the street. C'mon Omicron! Prove the NYT and the WaPo right and the South American researchers wrong! We can do it!
more importantly, we need to close every business in NYC immediately. we know all the variants spread more quickly indoors, so we must stop people from being in contact with strangers. as you are a scientist, i am sure you agree.
Nope in actual fact I think people are being hysterical about what this surge means and that cases will soon plateau, hospitalizations will not approach anything near their previous highs (as has already been demonstrated in London and elsewhere) and after the holidays things will calm down again. And this site won't be around for me to gloat about it!