Author Topic: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?  (Read 18495 times)

Offline HelloStar

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Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« on: January 28, 2011, 04:57:14 PM »
Hi all,

Just something I was thinking about recently:

I lived in Greenpoint and Williamsburg before and noticed that, over the years, changes happened (I think most of you have heard).  Organic food stores started popping up, innovative restaurants opened their doors and art galleries sprung up.  I am hesitant to call it true gentrification (although Williamsburg now may be undergoing that) because, at least in Greenpoint, the old character of the neighborhood was somewhat preserved.

The changes were a function of hip people looking for better rents and more space moving out of Manhattan and setting up in these areas.

I wonder if Jackson Heights would undergo the same sort of transformation?  For those of you who have lived here for a while, have you noticed any changes?  Do you think what happened in Greenpoint might happen in Jackson Heights one day?

I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing (although I would welcome an Organic Food restaurant and more restaurant varieties)--I'm just curious...


Offline Ed

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 05:07:47 PM »
Better watch out, you'll get a reputation as a trust fund hipstertarian!  :D

We moved here in 2002, since then ESPRESSO 77 and TABLE WINE opened, the FARMER'S MARKET went all year, FARM SPOT CSA began. STARBUCKS moved in.

There are some real concerns as regards commercial real estate rates in the area that may restrict small, locally-and-independently owned/run  businesses, so who knows?

Offline Rumble Imp

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 11:03:55 AM »
I agree with Ed, until it is easier for locals to open their own businesses in the neighborhood, it will never happen.

Which is a shame, because these locally owned businesses understand the true needs of a neighborhood and provide services to meet those needs.  What commercial landlords may not understand is that it is these types of business that attract more people to the neighborhood which in turn creates more demand for more larger, commercial lessees such as banks, supermarkets, etc.

I also tend to think of Jackson Heights as a co-op neighborhood more than a rental.  The young creative class usually jumps on a neighborhood where the rents are cheap; in other words, they're not looking to buy 2-bedroom co-ops.  From what I've seen, the transplants arrive here looking to start families not open record shops.

In conclusion, I am very pleased with the openings of Table Wine and E77, as well as the greenmarket and farmshare.  I think it does signify a trend, but not of the magnitude of anything seen in Greenpoint.




Offline dssjh

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 11:16:56 AM »
i tend to agree with rumble imp. i lived in greenpoint -- the far northern end of franklin, to be precise -- in the mid 1980s. it was a great place to live, in that we had a two bedroom apartment for under 300 bucks, with a manhattan view and a great bodega that doubled as an illegal liquor store across the street. but it was also largely desolate. our street had a total of four businesses in a ten-block stretch -- three bodegas and a great old man bar. manhattan ave was more bustling -- and i loved the fact that most of the businesses had been there for 30-plus years.

i'd venture that the young creative class was able to move in 10-15 years later because the rents were still really cheap, and landlords then became more capable of raising them (small houses have no rent control/stabilization, so the sky is the limit). back when new york still had cheap neighborhoods, we called it gentrification -- a moot point these days, given the virtually complete gentrification of the whole city. it's harder to transform a middle-class area -- in that it's simpler to evict an elderly person from a rental in a house -- or gouge a barely-survivng hardware store owner -- than it is to displace, say, a thriving gold jewelry shop.

and for the record, i'd like to see more locally-owned businesses of all sorts -- even if they are shops (like the aforementioned gold jewelry places) that i wouldn't patronize all that often myself.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 11:23:02 AM by dssjh »

Offline normelrod

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 04:17:41 PM »
I think Jackson Heights has a better chance of becoming more like Park Slope, albeit to a lesser degree. Many Brooklyn neighborhoods are starting to price out the middle class. So those people move here to have kids and start families. I've been here 7 years, and the difference is noticeable in my building and on the streets. The change won't be as quick or as drastic. Park Slope grew up during a real estate bubble; Jackson Heights is changing during a depressed market. Besides Queens and Jackson Heights don't have the "cool" factor that Brooklyn and Park Slope do.

Offline taggie

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2011, 01:53:59 AM »
This is worrisome to me as I feel there is a strong divide between classes and cultures here. Astorians complain, too, about the local shops
being far from what they want. Slowly Steinway street is changing but the residential profile has had a younger contingent for years that
is not reflected in the type of stores/restaurants in the main shopping concentrations. But it seems to be not a problem in Forest Hills which
has a neighborly feel and a mix of chains and independents that all appear to coexist nicely.

Offline normelrod

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 12:40:15 PM »
I think the stores in JH will change as the population does. Right now it seems like every 3rd store is a 99 cent store. These stores are clearly making money, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Once they're not profitable, they will give way to something else.

I think people sometimes expect too much too quickly from JH. According to the latest census figures, I am a still very much in the minority. And those numbers probably don't accurately reflect the undocumented population either. While I'd like more stores that cater to my tastes, there aren't enough people to support them.

Offline HelloStar

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 10:57:55 PM »
I'm not totally supportive of a rash of hipster bars showing up but I do wish that there were a few more stores and establishments that catered to me.  A small organic food store!  More cafes, more creative ventures than another 99 cent store or bank...

Is there anything that can be done to encourage this?  I think there are enough people around who would utilize the services of an organic food store, etc.

On the other hand, I'm not totally sure.  For example, Expresso 77 is more along the lines of a place I'd hang out in but how is it doing? 

Offline bpp75

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 01:59:25 PM »
It will not.

Greenpoint/Williamsburg is completely different from JH. Homes in Greenpoint/Williamsburg were/are rental ‘subways’ not coops with idiotic boards and rules and regulations. Artists and wannabe artists hate this sh… Additionally Greenpoint/Williamsburg is just an extension of LES. LES was an extension of SOHO etc. So next natural extension would be Ridgewood/Bushwick.

JH might become cheaper version of Park Slope but it will take 10-20 years.

Btw, Expresso 77 reassembles everything I don’t like.


 :laugh:

Offline Griswold Contessa

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 02:19:27 PM »
First off I hate all "wanna-be" anything.  Secondly, since I've never been to Expresso 77 what does it resemble that you don't?   Do you live in JH?  If you do what attracted you to this area?  :D
One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching.

Offline bpp75

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 03:10:01 PM »
cheap, a ok commute to the city, diversity, professionals/white people moving in so JH should slowly appreciate in value.
lived in sunnyside before.

Expresso 77 reassembles...."wannabe community cafe" with no soul, dull. that is my opinion, and we all have one.

 :D

Offline ShinjukuBaby

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 03:47:42 PM »
Espresso 77 is a small business owned by a neighborhood couple who love and are committed to Jackson Heights.  They showcase local artists in the cafe and publicize community events.  It's not a "wannabe" community cafe; it's very much of this community.

Of course we're all entitled to our opinion, but I really can't understand your criticism of Espresso 77.

Are there any locally owned businesses in JH that you like?

Offline bpp75

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 03:52:01 PM »
any bodega has more charm than Espresso 77  :D

don't fight it; it is personal preference and we are all entitled to have one.

Offline ShinjukuBaby

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 04:06:25 PM »
I'm not trying to "fight it", I'm just trying to understand what you're saying, because your comments didn't make any sense to me.

I can understand if you don't like the decor or ambiance, but calling it a "wannabe community cafe" is like calling local food carts "pretend street food".  It just isn't consistent with the meaning of the words.

I'm also still interested in hearing if there are any local establishments that you like.

Offline bpp75

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Re: Will Jackson Heights undergo the same transformation?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 06:02:05 PM »
Haha I see I got on your nerves.

<your comments didn't make any sense to me.>

If I don’t make sense to you don’t listen/read. I think you just want to continue the argument.

<"wannabe community cafe">

Whenever I pass E77 I see the same sort/kind of people and I don’t think they represent whole “community”. So calling it community café by all the fan boys and girls is a bit off. Btw, communities happen on their own (sort of natural process) they cannot be created. I see a lot of people wanting to create a community.  To me community in JH is all the immigrants and their 99c stores (99c is said metaphorically). That’s the truth if you like it or not. If you want to create something you might want to look at suburbs -they are created as "community"

<I'm also still interested in hearing if there are any local establishments that you like.>

What do you mean “establishment”? coffee place? They have great coffee in bagel shop on 37 ave and 86 st.   I don’t understand why you even care what I like? I guess you just wanna drill the discussion which to me is sort of pointless. I gave response to whether JH will become another gp/burg.

Anyway, that’s my last post on this subject.