Poll

Do you plan to use the facilities at Diversity Plaza once it is done?

Yes, I plan to sit, eat, read a paper, use the internet
13 (23.2%)
Yes, to walk pass it on the way to the subway
16 (28.6%)
No, I will try to avoid the area as too many homeless
5 (8.9%)
No, I think it a waste of 5 million of taxpayers money
22 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza  (Read 27003 times)

Offline PizzaRat

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #225 on: August 16, 2018, 07:09:54 PM »
I continue to believe it's a function of living in this city.

I have seen women flash in New York City.

In this town, you see everything.

You're comparing this to men flashing? And by the way, men aren't even usually just flashing, I see them going to town on themselves WAY too often in public. Obviously you are lucky enough to not be traumatized by seeing "everything" but plenty of people are not. I'm glad you don't live in fear of assault, but plenty of us do.

Offline JK resident

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #226 on: August 16, 2018, 08:22:11 PM »
Women flash me all the time.

I also just won the lottery.


Offline ClydeM

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #227 on: August 17, 2018, 07:38:31 AM »
I continue to believe it's a function of living in this city.

I have seen women flash in New York City.

In this town, you see everything.

In the 25 years or so that I've lived in NYC, I have seen women exposing themselves exactly twice. Once during a protest and once in Flushing when someone who was rather unstable relieved herself while screaming at everyone who was waiting for the bus.

Yes, you can see everything in NYC but it doesn't mean that we need to accept it. Also, context matters. Dudes exposing themselves on the street, in front of small children, or in a very public place like a subway station is unacceptable and should not be written off as simply something that happens (and it happens far to frequently in Jackson Heights).

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #228 on: August 17, 2018, 09:55:25 AM »
Unstable folks (men and women) are all over the world in our big cities.

These sort of things have happened in every big city (Paris etc, etc) I've lived in around the world.
(Definitely not just Jackson Heights!)

I've seen it everywhere.  That's why I'm pretty blase.

What happens is that these unwell folks are chased out from the fancier neighborhoods into less fancy ones. All over the world...


Offline 80JHer

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #229 on: August 17, 2018, 09:57:47 AM »
Walked through today after being away most of the summer.....

It’s a dirty dump already.  The ground around the trash cans are tarry, you see more white (cigarette butts) then mulch in the tree pits, red spit everywhere.  Most of us predicted this outcome, it’s just a bummer

All in all, I’m glad the money was used in jH, I would rather have something then nothing.  And the new something is slightly better then the old nothing.   I just wished dromm used it for something else.  Or I guess I wish you know he asked the community what we would have wanted, instead of just making desicisons without input.

I would have liked to see the area in front of the library cleaned up. Or even making the sidewalk bigger and getting rid of parking in front of library.

Offline JK resident

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #230 on: August 17, 2018, 10:13:48 AM »
The best thing to come out of this improvement are the new sidewalks and curb cuts. In the winter these sidewalks will be easier to clean. The only low point is that at the Sterling bank corner they didn’t redo the sidewalk and install the new plastic red inserts. Also the walk and don’t walk signs are not aligned so people can see them across the street. 5 million and this wasn’t done? Shameful.

Offline 80JHer

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #231 on: August 17, 2018, 10:30:58 AM »
Sorry not library, I meant the post office.  It sort of acts as the meeting point for 37th ave.

Offline Simka

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #232 on: August 19, 2018, 01:45:45 PM »
It's true. There are plenty of disgusting jerks who have no problem whipping it out in public and urinating at any old hour of the day. Not to mention the exposure for harassment purposes. There are never any cops around when it happens. I've seen it everywhere, especially in Jackson Heights, and there are certain areas I've learned to just avoid. Diversity Plaza is one of them. Besides the vagrants, and the trash, and the red spitting problem, it stinks to high heaven in that subway entrance. I don't even know why they bothered renovating the plaza. I can't tell much difference.

My guess is that area has always been like that.  I imagine for decades (20? 30 years?) before I moved into the neighborhood. I am confused as to why folks move into the neighborhood and imagine that things will change just because they are here. 

It makes no logical sense.

Newcomers like us knew what we were moving into. Or were some folks blind as to what was here?

Am unsure why all the complaining...

Huh. When I was looking at the neighborhood before I decided to move here, I didn't witness any men exposing themselves. I may have seen a drunk guy near the 73rd Street entrance, and some trash on the stairs and sidewalks. But those things wouldn't have alarmed me.

I don't think it's logical to expect people who live here to be okay with men exposing themselves and worse, whether they've lived here three months or thirty years. It's nasty, threatening, illegal behavior. And you're not sure why people are complaining about it?

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #233 on: August 21, 2018, 08:16:50 AM »
Hi PizzaRat. You have a lot of thoughts about my posts. I have thoughts about yours. Please note, none of the below is an attack. You and others may not like my thoughts, but not liking my thoughts doesn't necessarily make them attacks.


Quote
Lol, CaptainFlannel would've liked me to give him a big old hug!

Firstly, you and a few other posters really seem to be intentionally misunderstanding my posts about compassion for the mentally ill. I say intentionally misunderstanding because because I have clarified compassion for the mentally ill includes thoughts towards and words about the mentally ill, and outright mocking of my statements to suggest I am encouraging people to give hugs to people suffering from mental illness and are acting in a threatening way is unkind towards the mentally ill. I think the question for you and others to contemplate is why are you mocking the idea of showing compassion through words and thoughts in a neighborhood forum where it is likely some of your neighbors who actually suffer from mental illness (depression, anxiety disorder, schizophrenia, bi-polar depression) frequent and what impact do you think that might have on someone suffering from an already deeply stigmatized disorder?

Quote
Wow! This is extremely insensitive.

I'm sorry my question upset you, but I don't think it's insensitive to ask if you reported criminal behavior to the authorities that are actually tasked with dealing with criminal behavior when you stated you would have done so if if you had taken a video. I'm not sure why having a video would have made it worth it, while a phone call to the precinct without a video isn't. I don't think asking for clarification from you is unfair or unkind.

Let's be clear, it's not like I asked a rape survivor why she didn't report her sexual assault. And please note, talking to the police doesn't necessarily mean going up to the precinct to file a report. A phone call to the precinct to simply say "FYI guys, there's a dude at the 74th St. station Broadway entrance running around whacking off his wang at random women. He does this a lot. Perhaps you can send an officer there?" qualifies as reporting.
Quote
If women reported every man that exposed themselves in public, they'd be talking to the police a whole lot. This is actually a regular occurrence in Jackson Heights (and everywhere in the city) that can be very traumatizing.

This posts seems to be directed at me specifically, so let me point out that you are making an assumption about my gender, something you and others have done in the past. You don't know my gender, so perhaps you could refrain from trying to educate me about the daily realities of being a woman? I also know that public exposure is not as common as you are making it out to be. It's not a daily occurrence for most women, and the onus is on you to provide evidence that the majority of women in Jackson Heights are exposed to this kind of behavior "a whole lot." Additionally, it would be helpful for context to know what you consider "a whole lot" to be. Twice a year? twice a month? twice a week? twice a day?

Quote
So please don't tell me that I need to report something that has never been taken seriously.

I did not tell you what you need to do, PizzaRat. I asked you if you reported what happened, or if you did not but posted about it on a online forum.

Quote
A blatant example I can think of is when there was a man who was taking upskirt photos and pics of women's butts in Jackson Heights and posting them on a Tumblr blog talking about the bodies of all these women in Jackson Heights. It was absolutely disgusting, and it was discussed on this forum. The police were notified and did nothing to find or stop this guy

Yes, that is disgusting. How do you know the police did nothing to find or stop this guy rather than the police were simply unsuccessful? Do you have some insider information you can share here that provides evidence the police did nothing?

Quote
Unfortunately, with no police presence and the police not caring about these types of problems, people are dissuaded from taking action.

You seem to have a pretty low opinion of the police PizzaRat if you sincerely believe the NYPD as an institution and the individual officers don't care that a man is exposing his genitals in public. And I will point out, it's a strange juxtaposition to simultaneously complain about no police presence and also state it's a waste of time to make a phone call that will provide data to the police about an ongoing problem -- if you want police presence.

Offline PizzaRat

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #234 on: August 21, 2018, 02:22:51 PM »
Hi PizzaRat. You have a lot of thoughts about my posts. I have thoughts about yours. Please note, none of the below is an attack. You and others may not like my thoughts, but not liking my thoughts doesn't necessarily make them attacks.


Quote
Lol, CaptainFlannel would've liked me to give him a big old hug!

Firstly, you and a few other posters really seem to be intentionally misunderstanding my posts about compassion for the mentally ill. I say intentionally misunderstanding because because I have clarified compassion for the mentally ill includes thoughts towards and words about the mentally ill, and outright mocking of my statements to suggest I am encouraging people to give hugs to people suffering from mental illness and are acting in a threatening way is unkind towards the mentally ill. I think the question for you and others to contemplate is why are you mocking the idea of showing compassion through words and thoughts in a neighborhood forum where it is likely some of your neighbors who actually suffer from mental illness (depression, anxiety disorder, schizophrenia, bi-polar depression) frequent and what impact do you think that might have on someone suffering from an already deeply stigmatized disorder?

Quote
Wow! This is extremely insensitive.

I'm sorry my question upset you, but I don't think it's insensitive to ask if you reported criminal behavior to the authorities that are actually tasked with dealing with criminal behavior when you stated you would have done so if if you had taken a video. I'm not sure why having a video would have made it worth it, while a phone call to the precinct without a video isn't. I don't think asking for clarification from you is unfair or unkind.

Let's be clear, it's not like I asked a rape survivor why she didn't report her sexual assault. And please note, talking to the police doesn't necessarily mean going up to the precinct to file a report. A phone call to the precinct to simply say "FYI guys, there's a dude at the 74th St. station Broadway entrance running around whacking off his wang at random women. He does this a lot. Perhaps you can send an officer there?" qualifies as reporting.
Quote
If women reported every man that exposed themselves in public, they'd be talking to the police a whole lot. This is actually a regular occurrence in Jackson Heights (and everywhere in the city) that can be very traumatizing.

This posts seems to be directed at me specifically, so let me point out that you are making an assumption about my gender, something you and others have done in the past. You don't know my gender, so perhaps you could refrain from trying to educate me about the daily realities of being a woman? I also know that public exposure is not as common as you are making it out to be. It's not a daily occurrence for most women, and the onus is on you to provide evidence that the majority of women in Jackson Heights are exposed to this kind of behavior "a whole lot." Additionally, it would be helpful for context to know what you consider "a whole lot" to be. Twice a year? twice a month? twice a week? twice a day?

Quote
So please don't tell me that I need to report something that has never been taken seriously.

I did not tell you what you need to do, PizzaRat. I asked you if you reported what happened, or if you did not but posted about it on a online forum.

Quote
A blatant example I can think of is when there was a man who was taking upskirt photos and pics of women's butts in Jackson Heights and posting them on a Tumblr blog talking about the bodies of all these women in Jackson Heights. It was absolutely disgusting, and it was discussed on this forum. The police were notified and did nothing to find or stop this guy

Yes, that is disgusting. How do you know the police did nothing to find or stop this guy rather than the police were simply unsuccessful? Do you have some insider information you can share here that provides evidence the police did nothing?

Quote
Unfortunately, with no police presence and the police not caring about these types of problems, people are dissuaded from taking action.

You seem to have a pretty low opinion of the police PizzaRat if you sincerely believe the NYPD as an institution and the individual officers don't care that a man is exposing his genitals in public. And I will point out, it's a strange juxtaposition to simultaneously complain about no police presence and also state it's a waste of time to make a phone call that will provide data to the police about an ongoing problem -- if you want police presence.

I'm going to make this real simple for you.

1. I have clarified in my previous posts on this thread that I also believe that the mentally ill should have access to healthcare and help. I've also stated that I too suffer from mental illness (depression & anxiety). What I have a problem with is using "you should show them compassion" as an answer when I'm complaining about individual people who behave violently and illegally. Your solution to the violent behavior of certain neighborhood individuals is to show them compassion, and I'm not sure what that is going to accomplish.

2. I explained in that same post that I have reported the same exact man's behavior to the local police before, and that they did nothing about it because he continues to hang out in the same exact spot with no police around. He is there nearly everyday.

3. In no way did I make an assumption about your gender, actually. I simply said that women are faced with this kind of thing a lot. I also resent the fact that you're saying I exaggerate the frequency of things like public exposure. Whether you're a man or woman, that's sexist. I have no idea what your experience has been, but in my experience, I have been harrassed, catcalled, followed, and seen way too many people exposing themselves in this city. During some periods of time, those things HAVE been a daily occurrence. In fact, I just walked to the pharmacy in the neighborhood and had a guy catcall and follow me for a block before I told him off. However frequent this is, whether some women get it once a year or once a day, it happens way too often. Once is enough.

4. I know the police did nothing because (if I'm remembering correctly) the man continued updating his creepy blog for a long time afterwards, and I believe people on this forum discussed how they reported it to police but were dismissed. I did check the blog for updates for a while (because a picture of my ass had been posted on it, which terrified me), but don't even remember the name of it.

5. My opinion of the police is based on my interactions with them. As I previously stated, I HAVE reported this type of thing to Jackson Heights police before, and seeing as there's STILL NO POLICE PRESENCE in the neighborhood, I have to assume that they don't take it any more seriously. When they actually show up and start posting police in the neighborhood to do something about crime here, then maybe I'll respect them more.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #235 on: August 21, 2018, 02:55:53 PM »
Hi PizzaRat. I'm not going to go in everything above, but I am going to address these below:

Quote
What I have a problem with is using "you should show them compassion" as an answer when I'm complaining about individual people who behave violently and illegally.

Have I done that as an answer to you? I don't think I have. Can you point to me where I did that? And if I did, I certainly apologize. But, I think I've been specific that my criticism was directed at those who push the false narrative that the mentally are more likely to be violent criminals, and make people who are suffering from psychosis the butt of a snarky comment about a public plaza they don't like. Conflating that with a call to hugs for those who are exhibiting menacing behavior is rather unkind towards the mentally ill, wouldn't you agree?

Quote
the man continued updating his creepy blog for a long time afterwards, and I believe people on this forum discussed how they reported it to police but were dismissed.

This really isn't evidence the police did nothing. It's evidence they were unsuccessful. I'm not saying the police definitely did something, but what I'm saying is we shouldn't be so quick to indulge confirmation bias and believe the police don't care about public exposure, and consider other possibilities (not enough resources, previous unsuccessful attempts leading them to believe it's a waste of time, etc.) rather than settle on a certainty of belief that isn't warranted.

Quote
they did nothing about it because he continues to hang out in the same exact spot with no police around. He is there nearly everyday.

I'm not quite sure what you want the police to do. Detain someone without due process? Keep an officer there permanently? What do you think the police should do?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 03:03:09 PM by CaptainFlannel »

Offline PizzaRat

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #236 on: August 24, 2018, 12:33:33 PM »


This posts seems to be directed at me specifically, so let me point out that you are making an assumption about my gender, something you and others have done in the past. You don't know my gender, so perhaps you could refrain from trying to educate me about the daily realities of being a woman? I also know that public exposure is not as common as you are making it out to be. It's not a daily occurrence for most women, and the onus is on you to provide evidence that the majority of women in Jackson Heights are exposed to this kind of behavior "a whole lot." Additionally, it would be helpful for context to know what you consider "a whole lot" to be. Twice a year? twice a month? twice a week? twice a day?

I just wanted to come back to this because I was recently reading another thread on this board and by chance, came across a post where you identified yourself as a man and referred to yourself as "he/him." So I want to know why you made this extremely defensive comment about how you MIGHT know about the daily realities of being a woman, when you clearly do not.

"Perhaps you could refrain from trying to educate me about the daily realities of being a woman," you said. Well since I'm a woman and you're clearly not, maybe instead of talking over women, you should try listening to them for once. You have no authority to say harassment isn't a common occurrence.

[Moderator's Note: This is devolving into a personal fight that serves no purpose on a public forum.  As CaptainFlannel suggests in the next post, please take this to a private discussion.]
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 10:02:27 PM by toddg »

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #237 on: August 24, 2018, 06:51:36 PM »
Quote
came across a post where you identified yourself as a man and referred to yourself as "he/him."

You must be misreading something because I am certain I've never identified myself as a man. Additionally, English speakers don't typically use  the pronouns he/him or she/her to refer to themselves (and I'm a native English speaker. Sadly monolingual.), but rather use those pronouns to refer to other people. Please don't tell me my gender, and please don't retroactively try to justify making assumptions about my gender. I actually try to make a point of not referencing my gender, the gender of my SO, etc.

If you would like to carry on this conversation about whatever post you are referencing, please feel free to contact me by PM through the site.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 06:56:55 PM by CaptainFlannel »

Offline toque198

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #238 on: August 24, 2018, 07:45:06 PM »
You both need TIME OUT

Offline petster

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Re: Work commencing on Diversity Plaza
« Reply #239 on: April 27, 2019, 01:39:46 PM »
Haven't really been to this plaza much other than the few times I've taken the train into the city. On my most recent travels I walked by to find a filthy plaza laden with cigarette buds, spit,  and trash.  The "file cabinet" guy has taken up residence there as well. Apparently multiple complaints to Dromm, 311 and CB 3 have gone ignored...business as usual.  I guess when there are community celebrations it is utilized,  but to me it is  a 6 million dollar trash bin.  High expectations equated to a big loss.  The money could have been better put to use...like increased sanitation and enforcement of illegal vendors.