Author Topic: Status of Swim Two Birds Restaurant  (Read 94332 times)

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Yes
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2017, 08:37:16 AM »
Quote
I knew that someone would take issue with your use of "young."

Of course! Age discrimination in the workplace has been a violation of federal labor law since 1967. "Young" is not a qualification. If someone wants to train inexperienced people in the industry, the qualification for the position is the amount of experience the person has, not their age. Anyone foolish enough to post that in a job listing or on a public forum should expect to be reported to the EEOC.
https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adea.cfm

Imagine any of these other statements:
That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, white people in the area who want to work in hospitality.
That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, Christians in the area who want to work in hospitality.
That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, men in the area who want to work in hospitality.

Offline frances

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Re: Yes
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2017, 09:58:59 AM »
Better: I am looking to partner with local high schools and community colleges to create paid internships so local students can gain a foothold in the hospitality industry. These internships may turn into paid full time positions.

Offline jeanette

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Re: Yes
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2017, 11:23:37 AM »
Regarding staff...

We want to offer first class service and food.

That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, young people in the area who want to work in hospitality. The question is whether our clientele will tolerate that.

I find it extremely insulting.

But it makes me laff cuz it is commonly said/written by supposed higher-than-thou, always PC, never biased, accusatory finger pointers.

At least Stew was being honest.

Offline Stew

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Re: Yes
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2017, 09:27:26 PM »
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That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, young people in the area who want to work in hospitality.

How old is too old to work at your restaurant?

There is no age that is too old. If you would like to work with us, let me know.

The question that you are asking has nothing to do with my statement that we are interested in training young people in the neighborhood who want to work in hospitality.

Off the top of my head, I know two people in their late 60s/early 70s that I would hire in a second if they were available. One of them, if I can get her to agree, may well be a guest chef.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 09:44:12 PM by Stew »

Offline Stew

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Re: Yes
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2017, 10:03:28 PM »
We would really like to open as a non-tipping restaurant.

But the reality is that people disagree on whether this is acceptable, and we will need to be on an even keel early on.

As a practical matter, it is likely to be a goal, six months to a year into operation.

As some people have pointed out, this is an important issue regarding payment of kitchen staff, who under New York State law do not share in waiter tips.

We haven't made anything close to a final decision on this, but it is an important issue, not just in terms of our economics as a restaurant, but in terms of fairness to our kitchen staff.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 10:15:11 PM by Stew »

Offline Stew

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Re: Yes
« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2017, 10:52:33 PM »
Regarding staff...

We want to offer first class service and food.

That said, we are committed to hiring, and training, young people in the area who want to work in hospitality. The question is whether our clientele will tolerate that.

I find it extremely insulting.

But it makes me laff cuz it is commonly said/written by supposed higher-than-thou, always PC, never biased, accusatory finger pointers.

At least Stew was being honest.

With the greatest respect...

If we hire only highly experienced staff, you will have great service.

If we hire a combination of experienced staff and relatively inexperienced staff, especially young (and older, inexperienced) staff from the neighbourhood, they will have lots to learn and there will be service errors.

What is insulting about that, and more importantly, are you happy, or not, with dealing with people who are learning?

In Jackson Heights, the reality is that we will not start with the staff at 11 Madison Park, and that it will take time to get there. The only thing that I can promise is that it won't ever be Brooklyn hipster (which, of course, some people will want).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 11:11:46 PM by Stew »

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Yes
« Reply #111 on: May 08, 2017, 11:09:47 AM »
Good luck with finishing your project, Stew.

And as in any project, take no notice of those who criticize...

They are doomed to criticize because because they can't create!

Creating takes positive work, ability and focus. (Qualities you have definitely proved. Plus that often elusive trait, patience!)

Criticizing simply projects a person's own inner negativity.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 11:17:09 AM by abcdefghijk »

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Yes
« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2017, 12:35:39 PM »
Quote
Quote
What is insulting about that, and more importantly, are you happy, or not, with dealing with people who are learning?

What was insulting, at least to me as someone who isn't "young" anymore, is that you stated specifically that you are committed to hiring young people. You didn't write that you were committed to hiring inexperienced staff wanting to learn the hospitality business. That's a pretty clear bias. 

I'm glad after it was pointed out to you that your post was almost a perfect training example for new hiring managers of age discrimination and what not to include in a job posting or say in an interview that you clarified you were committed to hiring people who want to learn hospitality, regardless of age.

Offline Hertog

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Re: Yes
« Reply #113 on: May 08, 2017, 02:05:13 PM »
Excited to hear Stew. Providing a pathway for training is terrific.

Regarding tipping - I'm not from the US so I would prefer it as it's more similar to other countries I have lived in. But I recognize that it may make some customers feel uncomfortable.

Good luck!

Offline Stew

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Re: Yes
« Reply #114 on: May 08, 2017, 09:43:43 PM »


What was insulting, at least to me as someone who isn't "young" anymore, is that you stated specifically that you are committed to hiring young people.

My apologies. I was thinking about training inexperienced teenagers, who would form only a small part of our staff in such entry positions as busboys/busgirls, and you have correctly pointed out that there may be older, adult inexperienced people who might be interested. If you would like to apply to work with us, plesse let me know.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:59:07 PM by Stew »

Offline Stew

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Re: Yes
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2017, 10:08:03 PM »
Excited to hear Stew. Providing a pathway for training is terrific.

Thanks. We are really interested in training because we think that we can do it at a professional level. I would love to take on board someone who really wants to cook and then see her/him go on to culinary school or, if a culinary school graduate, give her/him a chance to showcase her/his stuff.

Will be at the restaurant tomorrow for the start of the final renovations. Looking forward to it. It's been a long road.

 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:22:58 PM by Stew »

Offline queenskid2

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Re: Yes
« Reply #116 on: May 08, 2017, 10:16:35 PM »
While I understand the criticism, creating opportunities for the next generation is a noble goal. Age discrimination is a real problem, but the need to expose youngsters to career paths that they may have never considered is something we should support. I have acted as a mentor to young people. There is nothing sinsister about it. I wish more businesses provided opportunities for young people.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Yes
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2017, 07:52:05 AM »
While I understand the criticism, creating opportunities for the next generation is a noble goal. Age discrimination is a real problem, but the need to expose youngsters to career paths that they may have never considered is something we should support. I have acted as a mentor to young people. There is nothing sinsister about it. I wish more businesses provided opportunities for young people.

Nobody has suggested there's anything sinister about hiring inexperienced people for entry level positions who happen to be young. What *is* problematic is forming a bias and making assumptions about youth being the requirement. That's not the requirement. Experience (or lack there of) is. A 40 year old looking to earn a little income on the side and willing to take a part time job at a restaurant as a barback or busboy is likely just as inexperienced as a high school kid. The hours available, hourly rate, etc. is naturally going to filter out the people with more experience in hospitality who can, based on their experience, get a higher paying job. Stating an age requirement is unnecessary, and a violation of federal labor law since 1967.

If a business is truly committed to training students, the business can look in to formal internships associated with culinary and/or vocational schools. These programs likely require more of the business if the student is earning credit for the work than just advertising an part-time entry level position and hiring the best candidate.

Offline MrPlaza

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Re: Status of Swim Two Birds Restaurant
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2017, 10:59:27 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks everyone simply read too deeply into what Stew wrote? I understand that it could be read one way (as being discriminatory), but I think prevailing logic suggests he was simply saying he also wants to use the restaurant as a way to expose young people to career opportunities in the hospitality industry. He didn't say that this is his hiring policy.

Methinks people are reading too deeply and trying to find something in between the lines. Sometimes there isn't actually anything in between the lines, folks. Ocam's Razor and all that.

Offline mgrave22

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Re: Status of Swim Two Birds Restaurant
« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2017, 11:21:36 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks everyone simply read too deeply into what Stew wrote? I understand that it could be read one way (as being discriminatory), but I think prevailing logic suggests he was simply saying he also wants to use the restaurant as a way to expose young people to career opportunities in the hospitality industry. He didn't say that this is his hiring policy.

Methinks people are reading too deeply and trying to find something in between the lines. Sometimes there isn't actually anything in between the lines, folks. Ocam's Razor and all that.

You're not the only one.