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Author Topic: grocery workers  (Read 4566 times)

Offline CupcakeTownie

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grocery workers
« on: December 25, 2009, 09:19:21 AM »
Thanks for the thread about the tipping protocol for building supers and others. That's what I love about this online community, which mimics something organic and old-time. You could live here for a hundred years and still not know anyone. Online here, more questions are raised and answered than I'd ever have time to think of myself, so thanks for that. That tipping thread is only an example.  So, thanks for all that...

Now, what I'm curious about are the grocery workers, especially at Trade Fair.  Does anyone know what the situation is? Is it just that the management there allows them to ask for tips (I don't see this at the Met, for example) and before I make any assumptions I'm seeking some information/assistance in seeking information about what the deal is. 

I still have a recurring dream about working for 3.25 an hour as a grocery store bagger when I was in high school (and until I was 18 when as a cashier I could make more than the 3.75 an hour ceiling for baggers). My students are shocked to hear how much I made from age 15-18 (1983-85). Once I turned 18 about three years later, I was promoted to cashier (and immediately quit, since freedom to wander off, collect carts, do carry-outs, etc., was a perk work preserving when compared to the responsibilities of being a cashier). My students are shocked but the truth is that 3.50 or so per hour back then was more in real dollars than 7 and change is now. For example, fuel was under a dollar a gallon, for just one misleading indicator.

Back to the Trade Fair workers.  I read somewhere about a suit filed on behalf of workers at a Brooklyn grocery store for some situation where they were not being properly compensated -- Does anyone know what I'm talking about?  I don't assume that this is the case here, but that's why I'd like to know what others here know about this... 

Generally, it's my policy to tip well and tip often, especially pizza workers, baristas, and others whose incomes need community supplement since I'm sure that it's difficult as a small business owner to pay what is proper and fair--I'm not apologizing for them but rather for the market-based system, which I loathe.

Any thoughts?  I know what the Living Wage is, so once I get some proper information I may come back around with something about that... But first, as Tony T says, "just the facts." Well, if you have some facts, please share...

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Offline Shelby2

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2009, 05:38:37 PM »
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Offline CupcakeTownie

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 08:28:24 AM »
Quote from: Shelby2 on December 25, 2009, 05:38:37 PM
Does this help?

Queens Market Cheated Grocery Baggers, State Says

Yes, thanks, Shelby2, in addition to the Steven Greenhouse article, I did some searches. If my hopes was to find a single major precedent for some back story, my heart sank when I read Greenhouse's opening words "Once again...". I tried google news search terms like "brooklyn grocery lawsuit" and "brooklyn bagger tips lawsuit" and other combinations not including "lawsuit." I discovered that this has been a problem that Make the Road has addressed, so I will check in with them; since the State brought charges in this case, there is likely to be more information available there too. Make the Road may have the answer to my very local query.

While I don't have the stomach to put up some of the more generic links about this problem, here is some samples of what I found regarding recent Brooklyn cases. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/nyregion/11baggers.html

http://www.villagevoice.com/2006-07-25/nyc-life/trouble-in-store/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5616632


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Offline jadasie

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 05:11:32 PM »
The problem with tip jars--and tipping in general--is that it unburdens business owners from having to pay a decent wage to their employees. There is a certain sentiment which runs through this forum (as it does in many neighborhoods) which seems to think that buying local is necessarily more ethical than buying from larger, faceless businesses. Well, exploitation is exploitation, and mom-and-pop shops are often the worst offenders. What we as neighbors should be doing is supporting any effort by employees to unionize. Generous tips alone won't help provide a family with a steady income.
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Offline CupcakeTownie

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2009, 07:02:24 AM »
So, Jadasie, can you answer my question? I'm happy to help the baggers unionize, but I still need to know whether they're getting paid at all. To follow-up on your generalization about posters here, the problem with ideology-driven arguments is that they often overlook the discussion at-hand in order to make a point.
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Offline jadasie

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2009, 08:02:11 AM »
CupcakeTownie,

Since this is a forum and not a Q & A, and since the topic at hand was about workers getting paid fairly, I thought the so-called ideology of union-organizing was appropriate to bring to the mix. You did ask, after all, for our thoughts (but then you asked for "just the facts," so admittedly I was confused).

But to address your question: No, I don't know if baggers are getting paid. You may wish to do some investigative research, maybe ask a bagger or two, or three or four. Maybe give them your number so they don't have to talk to you while on the job. If you're serious about this, get in touch with Make the Road By Walking. Their website is: http://www.maketheroad.org/
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Offline abee

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 12:51:49 AM »
Two or three years ago I had a student who was a bagger at Associated in Astoria. He was paid only in tips. I don't know if the situation is different now, but that store has undergone major revamping in that time.
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Offline Chuckster

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 04:38:53 PM »
Here's more on the topic of low-wage earners and lack of fair pay.  The Elmhurst C-Town supermarket is mentioned once again with an example of its alleged unfair wage practices:
 
Most Low-Wage Workers Are Cheated of Pay, Report Finds

New York Times, City Room blog:

"One of them, Guadalupe Medina de Morales, a 66-year-old immigrant from the Dominican Republic who worked at the store until 2005, said her only pay in eight years of bagging and delivering groceries full-time for C-Town had been tips from the customers, which amounted to about $125 a week.

“Nunca, nunca,” Ms. Medina de Morales said — “never” in Spanish — to describe how she was paid by the store’s managers, who still had her fill out W-2 tax forms like any other employee.

Even though the store paid her no hourly or weekly wage, it dared to extract about $17 a week from her tips to cover its withholding and unemployment insurance taxes, according to state officials."
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 05:06:12 PM »
So what is the recommendation in terms of customers tipping the baggers? 

It seems to me that if we don't, we are taking advantage of people who don't make any money if we don't tip them.  On the other hand, if we do tip, we are in some way being enablers, by making the system work for the bad guys (the store owners who break the law and don't pay their employees minimum wage).
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Offline Chuckster

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 05:28:09 PM »
Quote from: Shelby2 on January 28, 2010, 05:06:12 PM
So what is the recommendation in terms of customers tipping the baggers? 

It seems to me that if we don't, we are taking advantage of people who don't make any money if we don't tip them.  On the other hand, if we do tip, we are in some way being enablers, by making the system work for the bad guys (the store owners who break the law and don't pay their employees minimum wage).

In my opinion, I think it makes sense to continue tipping.  For some people, whatever income they earn bagging the groceries is essential.  I've heard of situations where grocery store managers allow people to receive tips, but at the same time make the baggers fully aware that no other form of pay is involved.  In essence, they make it appear as if they're doing the baggers a favor by allowing them to earn tips.  In the long run, I think it really benefits grocers though because it allows lines to move quicker and more efficiently.
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Offline DCPD

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 04:11:49 PM »
In Mexico, Wall Mart baggers are not paid in any way by the corporation.  They have the nerve to call them "VOLUNTEERS".  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 04:20:27 PM by DCPD »
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 04:55:48 PM »
Quote from: DCPD on January 29, 2010, 04:11:49 PM
In Mexico, Wall Mart baggers are not paid in any way by the corporation.  They have the nerve to call them "VOLUNTEERS".  

The woman in the example above in the Times Blog is not being paid in any way by C-Town in Elmhurst either.  The only thing she takes home is tips.
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Offline Chuckster

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Re: grocery workers
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2010, 01:24:48 PM »
Here's an update on the story involving some local supermarkets accused of unfair labor/wage practices.  According to the article, the markets have agreed to pay affected employees wages and overtime pay due them.   And while on this topic, I'm pretty sure I've noticed less baggers at some of the local supermarkets.  Hmm...

From YourNabe.com:

Queens supermarkets owe workers back pay: Labor Dept.
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