Author Topic: No-Pets rule and apartment leases  (Read 8121 times)

Offline Chuckster

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No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« on: April 18, 2009, 11:45:08 PM »
Should tenants be permitted to keep smaller pets despite a landlord's No-Pets rule on a lease?  One elderly woman won a case allowing her to keep her two cats in her rent controlled apartment.  This win begs the question of whether current laws and no-pet lease clauses contribute to pet overpopulation in the City.  The article basically supports the idea that non-nuisance pets should be permitted to remain with their owners when discovered by landlords, and when a pet dies, a new pet be allowed.

New York Daily News
A court ruling could make it harder for landlords to evict tenants with cats
BY Amy Sacks
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Saturday, April 18th 2009, 4:00 AM

For the last five years, 73-year-old Siiri Marvits has been fighting her landlord in court for the right to remain in her rent-controlled West Village apartment with her feline companions, Athena and Apollo.

But the state's second highest appellate court recently ruled that the landlord could not kick the elderly tenant out, despite a no-pets clause in her lease. Marvits had won the case in a lower appellate court last year but the landlord appealed.

Animal law experts said this case would pave the way for other tenants whose pets are not a nuisance to neighbors.

"This decision should allay concerns of people with cats, small dogs and other animals who do not routinely or ever leave their apartments that they can still get protection under New York City's pet law," says Elinor Molbegott, legal counsel for The Humane Society of New York. "It's a decision of the Appellate Division and lower courts should follow it."

In 2004, Marvits was threatened with eviction from the two-room apartment where she has lived for 47 years. She has shared the Manhattan apartment for more than a decade with her timid cats - a mother and daughter she adopted.

Marvits is protected under a 1983 Pet Law aimed at stopping landlords from using no-pet rules as an excuse to evict tenants so they can hike up the rent.

The provision is waived if the landlord fails to take legal action within three months of the tenant's open and notorious harboring of the pet, according to the law.

Marvits' landlord, 184 W. 10th St. Corp., argued that she didn't "openly and notoriously" have the cats, because she didn't take them outside and they hid whenever someone entered the apartment.

But the court agreed that their litter box and food bowls were plainly visible over the years to the building's superintendent and to various contractors who entered her apartment to fix leaky pipes and circuit breakers.

Marvits was not required to display the cats in public, and the cats' shy nature and tendency to hide from strangers also kept them out of sight.

"What I'm hoping is we get to the stage where the only pet case we see is because of nuisance," said Marvits' lawyer, Steven DeCastro.

He is currently defending another client who has lived in her Manhattan rental condo unit for 34 years. Her landlord claims her cat smells and is a nuisance to neighbors, but she suspects they want to sell her valuable apartment.

Experts are calling upon the City Council to pass legislation to expand the right of tenants to share their lives with companion animals. That includes the right of elderly tenants to get a new pet when one dies.

No-pet clauses play a part in the tragedy of the city's pet overpopulation crisis, said Molbegotte, the animal shelter lawyer. She said the law limits the people who can keep pets in the city, and those threatened with eviction relinquish their pets to animal shelters.

Some rules are about to become even more restrictive. Beginning May 1, the New York City Housing Authority will prohibit its tenants from having certain breeds of dogs, including Boston terriers, and will change the weight limit for adult dogs from 40 pounds to 25 pounds.
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 12:25:34 AM »
Why do people get pets in the first place if it is prohibited in their lease?

Offline liam0925

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009, 02:53:49 AM »
Why do people get pets in the first place if it is prohibited in their lease?

when i moved back to jackson heights i had a problem because my building didn't allow pets and there was no way i was leaving my dog behind.  The real estate people told me to talk to the super--friends told me he collected pictures of the presidents--who in turn said it was ok.  Why do people get pets in the first place?  Because they want to/need to.  I wish landlords were as anti bug as they are anti pet!

Offline Marlene

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 10:43:35 AM »
I understand that some shareholders have had to move from their property upon the board finding out that there is a pet in the house.  If the house rules indicate no pets are allowed, and you sign them the board expects you to abide by the house rules.  My building allows dogs, but up to 30 lbs.  Unfortunately, some real estate agents have put ready, willing and able buyers through the board interview, knowing the house rules themselves, to then find out that their 50 lb. dog will not be allowed to live in the apartment.  Not sure why those with pets want to move into a non-pet friendly building, but I always encourage those looking for property that are pet owners to move into pet friendly buildings to avoid any unpleasantries.   :smiley6600:   

Offline Chuckster

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 03:13:16 PM »
I think what also happens sometimes is that people will live in a particular rental building for many years without being aware of specific rules outlined in leases.  New building ownership will come in and enforce the no-pets rule.  For example, I have friends that live in a rent stabilized apartment building for over 30 years.  Their lease does contain a no-pets clause, yet the landlord was very lax about enforcing the rule.  A new owner came in and immediately informed all tenants that only grandfathered pets would be allowed.
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Offline abee

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 06:43:50 PM »
If a pet is living in an apartment and it's not hidden, but no formal complaint is made about the pet, the no-pets clause in the lease is void. I'm sure this law is not valid for a shareholder in a coop, but it is true for a renter.

Offline Griswold Girl

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 07:20:40 PM »
I agree, people should abide by the rules in place.  However, I do think that boards need to be more open minded about their rules and reevaluate their rules and see if they do indeed make sense.  For example, a lot of buildings have these archaic 30 lbs dog rules in place. 

One thing that I learned through adopting my dog at the ASPCA is that a dog's behavior is based on energy level and not weight.  For example, a Jack Russell (10 lbs) can create 4 times the amount of noise and destruction as a Greyhound (80 lbs). Wonderfully docile, large, well behaved dogs are needlessly euthanized in New York. In addition, a lot of dog's behavior is based on the owner's education and commitment (or lack there of) and not the dog breed.  For example, some of my neighbor's have the nastiest Chihuahuas whereas I know many dog owners who have very laid back well behaved Pitbulls, Rottweilers and Mastiffs.  Education, education, education is key. For both dog owners and non-dog owners.

Also, pet ownership and the pet market is big business and increasing.  I think buildings will find that being pet friendly these days is more of a bonus than a hindrance.  You broaden your pool of prospective owners / renters.

Offline abee

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 08:28:59 AM »
Quote
For example, some of my neighbor's have the nastiest Chihuahuas whereas I know many dog owners who have very laid back well behaved Pitbulls, Rottweilers and Mastiffs.  Education, education, education is key. For both dog owners and non-dog owners.

Such a big part of this is the training. A well trained dog is a good dog, no matter the size, and a poorly behaved dog will run rampant and cause trouble, even if it's only 10 pounds. If people don't properly train and exercise their animals, that's poor pet ownership, not a bad animal.

Offline Chuckster

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 11:02:07 PM »
I agree that there are irresponsible dog owners out there.  Today I heard on the news that the New York Housing Authority will be issuing new regulations banning large breed dogs like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, etc. in public housing.  These are breeds they believe to be dangerous.  Unfortunately, the dogs are not the problem, and it's a shame that these poor animals are trained by people to behave aggressively thereby creating bad raps for them.
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 11:11:51 PM »
I agree that there are irresponsible dog owners out there.  Today I heard on the news that the New York Housing Authority will be issuing new regulations banning large breed dogs like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, etc. in public housing.  These are breeds they believe to be dangerous.  Unfortunately, the dogs are not the problem, and it's a shame that these poor animals are trained by people to behave aggressively thereby creating bad raps for them.

I wonder what kind of dogs these people (the ones who like to train their dogs to be aggressive) will own if they are prevented from owning the stereotypically aggressive breeds. 

Offline Chuckster

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 11:35:55 PM »
I think any dog can be trained to be aggressive.  Somewhere on another thread I told a story of how I was once approached by a guy asking if I was interested in teaching my dog aggressive behavior.  I have a small dog, so obviously, he didn't see that as a hindrance.  My guess is that if the NYCHA tops the weight limit at 25 lbs., then these people would still aim for the larger sized dogs.
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Offline homeowner

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 12:53:07 PM »
No-pets rules make absolutely no sense to me.  They are knee-jerk responses to hypothetical problems. If there is a problem with a pet owner - deal with THAT.  Blanket rules on dogs under a particular weight is ridiculous.  People often make more noise and damage common areas than dogs - two reasons boards often cite as to the rationale for the bans.  My large dog is and always has been a good neighbor and good canine citizen. 

Offline Shelby2

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 07:56:27 PM »
No-pets rules make absolutely no sense to me.  They are knee-jerk responses to hypothetical problems. If there is a problem with a pet owner - deal with THAT.  Blanket rules on dogs under a particular weight is ridiculous.  People often make more noise and damage common areas than dogs - two reasons boards often cite as to the rationale for the bans.  My large dog is and always has been a good neighbor and good canine citizen. 

Since it's pretty much a given that irresponsible pet owners do exist, having a no-pet rule in a building ensures that the residents do not have to put up with listening to excessive barking, etc.

I see no problem with having a building with a no pet clause.  People who don't have pets and don't intend to get them can live there knowing that they will not have to listen to pet noises above, below or sideways.  Even though there will probably be other annoyances related to living in multi-unit housing, at least listening to neighbors' barking dogs will not be among them.

If someone wants to own a pet, then that person can live in a building that accepts pets.

I do agree, however, that weight limits on dogs don't seem to make much sense.  In my experience with neighbors' dogs, it seems to be the smaller ones that create the most noise.

Offline homeowner

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 01:50:58 PM »
Since it's pretty much a given that irresponsible pet owners do exist, having a no-pet rule in a building ensures that the residents do not have to put up with listening to excessive barking, etc.

I see no problem with having a building with a no pet clause.  People who don't have pets and don't intend to get them can live there knowing that they will not have to listen to pet noises above, below or sideways.  Even though there will probably be other annoyances related to living in multi-unit housing, at least listening to neighbors' barking dogs will not be among them.

If someone wants to own a pet, then that person can live in a building that accepts pets.

I do agree, however, that weight limits on dogs don't seem to make much sense.  In my experience with neighbors' dogs, it seems to be the smaller ones that create the most noise.

I understand your POV but I disagree. But since one cannot foresee all annoyances that may occur in multi-unit housing, prohibiting pets, is a "solution" to what could be a non-existent problem.  Plus by the time these rules are made effective, the offender often already lives there and it only serves to keep out newcomers.  It seems like an easy vote for boards to appear pro-active.  If a person would make an irresponsible pet owner, they will likely be an inconsiderate neighbor in other ways so why ruin it for people with well-behaved pooches?

What about residents who play certain musical instruments, sing, cook aromatically strong food or smoke cigars?  How many boards prohibit those activities?  Recently, some retirement communities in Florida moved to prohibit children from living there which resulted in a huge uproar.  Residents were concerned that children would make noise and be disruptive.  Would your response be for the newcomers to find a building that permitted children?  Finding a building that accepts pets seems to be more and more difficult for prospective buyers and renters. Dogs are part of our community and shouldn't be excluded arbitrarily.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 02:00:55 PM by homeowner »

Offline hunnybear

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Re: No-Pets rule and apartment leases
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2009, 09:05:39 PM »
YOu SAid it perfectly!!!