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Author Topic: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets  (Read 3265 times)

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2021, 12:46:39 PM »
Most folks have chosen their sides concerning this issue . I doubt anyone is ever swayed by posts on this or any other forum.

Basically...it's pro car lobby versus the pro pedestrian lobby.

The spirit of the times is moving towards pro pedestrian. As is obvious by the various continuing successful street closures in Manhattan.

The future is clear. Whether folks are happy or unhappy about the future to do with this...simply depends on their stance.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 12:52:48 PM by abcdefghijk »
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Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 05:24:58 PM »
 Abcd... would ever give us an idea of how you life without any cars/buses/garbage trucks/delivery trucks/ambulances/firetrucks/access a rides/walkers, etc come in and out of buildings on 34th without difficulty in the window of time the street is closed? Note that the 34th Ave closure is far and away the longest open streets(most look to be two streets, not 26 blocks) and much more time than others - many weekends and good weather only. How does your building on 34th Ave do it? We see a lot of stress involved with non-bikers, multi generational families, tradespeople and those with difficulty walking but maybe you work in your building and have bike delivery of groceries and tele health visits?
 
  Do you think maybe the large number blocks and the high amount time the street is closed is the reason for the animosity in the neighborhood against the closure? I believe this is way more the case than a pro car/anti car stance. Needs to be shorter in both cases and strategically done by a certified urban planner. Citing Diversity Plaza again as an awful community planned space with partisan ideas.

   BTW If you walk between on 34th Ave between 2:30 and 3:30 there is a comical amount of vehicular traffic on each corner. Every courier, school bus, many parents and misc others are at the cross streets and it's really a sight.
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Offline JHResident

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 06:34:18 PM »
Quote from: lindsey on September 24, 2021, 10:00:59 AM
Probably won't make sense to end Open Streets now, since soon every single school on 34th Ave. is going to be using those streets for outdoor recess, inshallah.  ;D
That's two blocks that are closed.
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Offline JHResident

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2021, 06:40:39 PM »
Quote from: abcdefghijk on September 24, 2021, 12:46:39 PM

Basically...it's pro car lobby versus the pro pedestrian lobby.

That's a big over simplification. Most people are in neither lobby. Most people walk sometimes and ride in vehicles at other times. That's why there are streets and sidewalks. In Long Island there are many communities with no sidewalks, since no one walks anywhere. If you want to close 34th Avenue, fine. But first resolve the issues this causes, which are obvious. Don't wait until later and say no one said anything. And deal with the electric vehicles on the Avenue that obey no regulations.
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2021, 07:39:35 PM »
Quote from: itsit on September 29, 2021, 05:24:58 PM
Abcd... would ever give us an idea of how you life without any cars/buses/garbage trucks/delivery trucks/ambulances/firetrucks/access a rides/walkers, etc come in and out of buildings on 34th without difficulty in the window of time the street is closed? Note that the 34th Ave closure is far and away the longest open streets(most look to be two streets, not 26 blocks) and much more time than others - many weekends and good weather only. How does your building on 34th Ave do it? We see a lot of stress involved with non-bikers, multi generational families, tradespeople and those with difficulty walking but maybe you work in your building and have bike delivery of groceries and tele health visits?
 
  Do you think maybe the large number blocks and the high amount time the street is closed is the reason for the animosity in the neighborhood against the closure? I believe this is way more the case than a pro car/anti car stance. Needs to be shorter in both cases and strategically done by a certified urban planner. Citing Diversity Plaza again as an awful community planned space with partisan ideas.

   BTW If you walk between on 34th Ave between 2:30 and 3:30 there is a comical amount of vehicular traffic on each corner. Every courier, school bus, many parents and misc others are at the cross streets and it's really a sight.

Yes, I understand you are upset that the future appears to be swaying towards pro-pedestrian. You are probably upset that congestion pricing will be introduced in Manhattan below 60th Street. You are also probably upset that Times Square and the Meatpacking district and 14th Street are now closed to car traffic. The list will go on as more and more pedestrian friendly spaces are planned for NYC.

This is a global phenomenon in first world countries. Pro pedestrian is the trend.

You are probably upset that the whole world is going in that direction.

Apart from time traveling back into the 1950's Robert Moses past..."the good ol' days when the car was king"...I am pretty sure there is nothing you can do about it. It must be hard to battle the entire world...and the direction in which the world is moving.   

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Offline earbears

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2021, 01:43:32 PM »
Anyone having issues with Access-a-Ride or cabs for disabled picking-up/dropping off at your door on 34th Ave?
Please contact us:

https://www.34compromise.org/[/size]
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Offline ChickenringNYC

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2021, 04:13:00 PM »
Quote from: abcdefghijk on September 24, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
Basically...it's pro car lobby versus the pro pedestrian lobby.
.

I've never owned a car my entire life and I'd be fine with 34th Ave returning to normal. Then I could use the bike lane as intended; to ride for real. As opposed to puttering along at 5mph avoiding obstacles like an urban slalom course. As we are all motivated by self-interest, I agree it's an oversimplification to make it about cars versus peds.
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2021, 08:46:15 PM »
Quote from: ChickenringNYC on October 03, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: abcdefghijk on September 24, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
Basically...it's pro car lobby versus the pro pedestrian lobby.
.

I've never owned a car my entire life and I'd be fine with 34th Ave returning to normal. Then I could use the bike lane as intended; to ride for real. As opposed to puttering along at 5mph avoiding obstacles like an urban slalom course. As we are all motivated by self-interest, I agree it's an oversimplification to make it about cars versus peds.

I stand corrected. Cars vs Bikes vs Peds.
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Offline Meowtron

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2021, 09:47:39 PM »
And I enjoy the open space on 34th ave... totally different vibe than being crammed onto a small sidewalk. For those that think the solution is to build more parks, please build them first and please have those revolve around the upper 80’s to 90’s near 34th so we can have easy access near our footsteps instead of walking 10 blocks. Mb I’ll feel OS isn’t needed then.

Quick design Q on those that are claiming accessibility issues. Aren’t most accessibility ramps typically located on the side of the buildings anyways and not in the front where the streets are closed off? Also, the sidewalks are narrow and are actually not great here in JH so bring able to use the primarily smooth roads to walk/push a wheelchair is a blessing. Speaking from the POV of someone who has a fully disabled parent.
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Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2021, 11:33:28 AM »
  Yes, build more parks and please, please A COMMUNITY CENTER! before making changes to 34th Ave which even at it's best is an asphalt ribbon. Come the harsh winter weather, we might be wishing for indoor spaces that are sorely lacking here in JH. There are many compliance issues for the ADA with open streets and while some use the side doors and ramps, they are not available or as useful for everyone on 34th Ave. Some of the side streets have bus routes which makes waiting with car services difficult. Also now that the planters took up the space that a driver could temporarily use for less abled pickups, it's even more critical to look at this issue.

 Parks, real parks and Community Centers, please for broader use and full year enjoyment. Then see what 34th Ave. open streets interest is? Still dreaming about a local pool...

 
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2021, 11:40:29 AM »
Quote from: itsit on October 04, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
  Yes, build more parks and please, please A COMMUNITY CENTER! before making changes to 34th Ave which even at it's best is an asphalt ribbon. Come the harsh winter weather, we might be wishing for indoor spaces that are sorely lacking here in JH. There are many compliance issues for the ADA with open streets and while some use the side doors and ramps, they are not available or as useful for everyone on 34th Ave. Some of the side streets have bus routes which makes waiting with car services difficult. Also now that the planters took up the space that a driver could temporarily use for less abled pickups, it's even more critical to look at this issue.

 Parks, real parks and Community Centers, please for broader use and full year enjoyment. Then see what 34th Ave. open streets interest is? Still dreaming about a local pool...

Each and every one of us has come to the realization that posting on this forum is a brilliant way for theoretical discussions.

But rarely translates into any action in the real world.

You do realize that, right?
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2021, 06:38:45 PM »
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If you want to close 34th Avenue, fine. But first resolve the issues this causes, which are obvious. Don't wait until later and say no one said anything. And deal with the electric vehicles on the Avenue that obey no regulations.

I think it's worth remembering that 34th Avenue was made in to a Open Street as an emergency measure during the peak of Covid in Spring 2020, and Open Streets was made a permanent program by City Council about (I think) five months later. The reason 34th Avenue is still operating as an Open Street is because it is popular, and DoT is working on a proposal which should address the obvious issues. And who knows what DoT will propose? Maybe the opponents to OS will get their wish and see the length reduced, hours shortened, etc. I don't think signs point to that, but maybe!

To suggest that no one  has said anything to DoT about the obvious issues is pretty out there. DoT even delayed their proposal, I think in part because of the hub-bub that was being created by people lying and claiming there was a plan to eliminate parking on 34th Ave. Even the people who are in favor of OS are asking DoT to make changes that make it accessible, safe, keeps pedestrians and cyclists safer, etc. There's been a fair amount of community outreach, and really, the way to influence the agency that runs the program is to participate in community feedback to DoT (not this board).

How about we give DoT a chance to present its proposal first - which is supposed to happen this fall - which undoubtedly everyone will have a criticism about?

Quote
Yes, build more parks and please, please

where? Whose homes or businesses do you want to tear down to put in a park? I mean, I'd like more parks too -- actual parks, not playgrounds  -- but it kind of seems like that bell (real estate development) can't be unrung at this point.
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Offline JHResident

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2021, 07:57:08 PM »
Quote from: CaptainFlannel on October 04, 2021, 06:38:45 PM
Quote
If you want to close 34th Avenue, fine. But first resolve the issues this causes, which are obvious. Don't wait until later and say no one said anything. And deal with the electric vehicles on the Avenue that obey no regulations.
To suggest that no one  has said anything to DoT about the obvious issues is pretty out there. DoT even delayed their proposal, I think in part because of the hub-bub that was being created by people lying and claiming there was a plan to eliminate parking on 34th Ave.
This is not a lie. There was a proposal to make 34th Avenue a linear park. What that means is anyone's guess, but closing the Avenue might seem necessary if it's to be a park. If the street is closed, parking spots would necessarily be eliminated.  Which also answers your question of where the land would come from. And the quote you posted from me doesn't suggest that no one has said anything, it says solve the problems.
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2021, 07:31:50 AM »
Quote
This is not a lie. There was a proposal to make 34th Avenue a linear park. What that means is anyone's guess, but closing the Avenue might seem necessary if it's to be a park.

The petition (not a proposal) to make 34th Avenue a linear park does not necessarily mean parking has to be eliminated. Also, that's DoT's decision anyway, and does not fall under the purview of the people who have signed the petition. Besides, there are plenty of parks with road ways in them (i.e. Eastern Parkway). In fact, the petition makes some pretty broad, nonspecific requests to the powers that be in city government and DoT who are preparing a proposal for 34 OS, and does not propose eliminating parking.

What unscrupulous people did was misrepresent an advocacy group's proposal to reduce street parking in NYC by 25% as a plan for 34th Avenue.
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Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2021, 10:45:28 AM »
 Do we think it's wise to make permanent plans for a post pandemic situation without allowing the pandemic to subside? Let's assess needs then, see where the financials are in the city, look at the overall flow of the neighborhood and vote, yes vote, where the information is wide disseminated and not only with online contact. A real vote and real plans made with data collected by electronic sources along the avenue could tell us as a community who is in favor and who is not. The DOT is treading lightly and listening, and listening, because they are the first call if traffic flow collapses here in JH.

  BTW a few real estate parcels are available for a community center and the one that stands out the most is the parking lot on Northern Blvd next to the 115th which the city already owns. It's been talked about for years and this might be the time to make paradise (a community center!) out of a parking lot. Money from Biden for Infrastructure along with canceling the Airtrain might just be a way to get this to happen. Yes, I believe in magic.

  Also talked about for some time, is opening the schools to multiple activities after school hours, weekends, summer for other uses. The current kookaberry system is so crazy where it has to go through the maintenance staff and they are not easy to deal with! Many suburban school systems do this often and the community gets a twofer with its educational buildings. Why not here? There are some things happening but the community at large is not always aware of the offerings.
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