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Author Topic: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA  (Read 1740 times)

Offline Shelby2

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NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« on: December 08, 2020, 04:22:10 PM »
State Senator Jessica Ramos is co-sponsoring this bill, which would place a $3 surcharge on every package ordered online, with the exception of food and medicine. Thoughts?

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-yorkers-may-have-to-pay-package-delivery-surcharge-to-help-fund-mta/2767045/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_NYBrand&amp&fbclid=IwAR3acRIQxDyHXMTwQMDSKtiejZS0Df9i4SuHUI2I1K4KyeUrvq3SRiV54Rs

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Offline carrefour_ny

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 04:36:56 PM »
While I agree with the premise, and I strongly believe that taxation is the price of civilization, I oppose the idea that residents having to close all budgetary gaps from their pockets. Why not find a different source of revenue, say, a corporate one? Amazon fared much better in this pandemic than residents in our neighborhood, for ex. I also note that residents are already paying a surcharge for restaurants, increase costs, receive significant reduction in services, etc.
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 05:22:57 PM »
Good idea.
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Offline lindsey

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2020, 05:59:05 PM »
I think Ramos has done great work during the pandemic, but disagree with her on this highly regressive proposal. Our representatives should be laser-focused on raising revenue by first increasing taxes on our native millionaires and billionaires (who, by the way, enjoyed huge windfalls from the Trump tax cuts).
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 06:45:30 PM »
The other co-sponsor, Robert Carroll, lives in or near the Kensington area of Brooklyn, which I imagine is well stocked with stores where people can shop locally. I wonder if either of the co-sponsors have bothered to consider that not all areas of NYC are well served with stores. It seems like just yesterday Ramos was talking about certain areas of NYC being "food deserts" so surely she understands the concept that not all areas are alike in terms of their amenities for shopping.

The other group that it would hurt more than others are seniors and those with limited mobility. I remember when I had a broken foot, it was not at all easy to go out and shop. To add insult to injury, this is the same population that most likely gets much less out of the MTA since the MTA is so disability-unfriendly.
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Offline Beherenow

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 09:20:00 AM »
Quote from: Shelby2 on December 08, 2020, 06:45:30 PM
The other group that it would hurt more than others are seniors and those with limited mobility. I remember when I had a broken foot, it was not at all easy to go out and shop. To add insult to injury, this is the same population that most likely gets much less out of the MTA since the MTA is so disability-unfriendly.

Agree. Essentially, this is forcing many people who don't use the MTA to pay for the MTA. And let's not forget all the people with underlying health conditions that put them at risk for COVID. I've got Type 1 diabetes and am very leery of shopping in stores. And I can't take the subway.
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Online lalochezia

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2020, 09:27:24 AM »
Quote from: Beherenow on December 09, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
Quote from: Shelby2 on December 08, 2020, 06:45:30 PM
The other group that it would hurt more than others are seniors and those with limited mobility. I remember when I had a broken foot, it was not at all easy to go out and shop. To add insult to injury, this is the same population that most likely gets much less out of the MTA since the MTA is so disability-unfriendly.

Agree. Essentially, this is forcing many people who don't use the MTA to pay for the MTA. And let's not forget all the people with underlying health conditions that put them at risk for COVID. I've got Type 1 diabetes and am very leery of shopping in stores. And I can't take the subway.


I'm on the fence about this proposal's regressiveness, but the above argument is specious.

If you live in  a society, as individuals we pay for things in the common good ALL THE TIME that some can't take advantage of as individuals. Schools if you don't have kids, senior care if you don't have elders in your family, roads in different parts of the state, public health initiatives that don't affect me "directly", etc. etc.etc.

This is no different. Public transport is a public good and needs to be paid for by the public, not just by its users.
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2020, 10:39:17 AM »
Quote from: lalochezia on December 09, 2020, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: Beherenow on December 09, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
Quote from: Shelby2 on December 08, 2020, 06:45:30 PM
The other group that it would hurt more than others are seniors and those with limited mobility. I remember when I had a broken foot, it was not at all easy to go out and shop. To add insult to injury, this is the same population that most likely gets much less out of the MTA since the MTA is so disability-unfriendly.

Agree. Essentially, this is forcing many people who don't use the MTA to pay for the MTA. And let's not forget all the people with underlying health conditions that put them at risk for COVID. I've got Type 1 diabetes and am very leery of shopping in stores. And I can't take the subway.


I'm on the fence about this proposal's regressiveness, but the above argument is specious.

If you live in  a society, as individuals we pay for things in the common good ALL THE TIME that some can't take advantage of as individuals. Schools if you don't have kids, senior care if you don't have elders in your family, roads in different parts of the state, public health initiatives that don't affect me "directly", etc. etc.etc.

This is no different. Public transport is a public good and needs to be paid for by the public, not just by its users.

Well, sure, I pay taxes for kids to go to school but I don't have school-aged children and I'm fine with that. However, this is a tax that would be directly targeting people who absolutely need to shop online at a greater rate than others (due to disabilities/age) and channeling that money into something that they can't use. I don't see how that makes good sense. I guess you disagree.

Even if the money weren't being used to fund the MTA, it still wouldn't be fair to target people who need to shop online.

It also targets small businesses, who need to buy supplies and inventory online and have it delivered by UPS, etc. There's been a lot of awareness lately about how small businesses are suffering, so I also don't see how it makes sense to make them take an even larger financial hit.
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2020, 12:16:30 PM »
We either live in New York City or we don't. There is always a choice.

The subway is a vital part of NYC. And one of its greatest assets.

And we must all pay for it if we want to live in NYC.

Most other cities don't have a subway like ours.

And those cities are greatly diminished due to the lack of a subway.

If it's the price of living in NYC, folks must pay that price.

Otherwise, folks are free to move to subway-less suburbs or minor cities.

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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2020, 12:17:05 PM »
 :)
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 12:18:07 PM »
 ::)
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 12:23:39 PM »
Quote from: abcdefghijk on December 09, 2020, 12:16:30 PM
We either live in New York City or we don't. There is always a choice.

The subway is a vital part of NYC. And one of its greatest assets.

And we must all pay for it if we want to live in NYC.

Most other cities don't have a subway like ours.

And those cities are greatly diminished due to the lack of a subway.

If it's the price of living in NYC, folks must pay that price.

Otherwise, folks are free to move to subway-less suburbs or minor cities.

I think there's very little chance that this bill will pass, so luckily for many people who would be unfairly financially targeted by paying a $3 surcharge on every shipped package, they won't have to face this "choice" of leaving NYC.

I wonder if the bill sponsors have ever stopped to think how many small businesses would opt to never come here and do business in the first place with this extra financial burden, and how the lack of businesses coming here (or the ones who are already here leaving) would impact the finances of the city and the MTA.

It's easy to tell people and businesses if they don't like it, just leave. But there's a heavy financial impact for the city if people and businesses do just that.

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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 12:35:08 PM »


It's a life of relentless, small-minded ennui outside of NYC.

For businesses and for citizens.

The premium it costs financially to live in NYC is always worth it. Including a new $3 surcharge on packages.

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Offline Grabey

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 04:09:15 PM »
How about going after Amazon and making them pay more in taxes? This is extremely regressive. Imagine someone who gets 1 package a week, 52 packages a year. That's $156 a year in fees. If you make $30k that's 0.5% of your income. If you make $100k it's 0.16% of your income. (Feel free to check my math! I might be wrong!) People making less money pay more for the same service, that's regressive. (Same could be said about sales taxes.) It's shameful to propose this during the pandemic when we're encouraged to stay home as much as possible!

JR has been very vocal about her support for a billionaires tax - maybe this is a move to drum up support for that among regular folks who think this $3/package proposal is ridiculous.
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Offline lindsey

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Re: NY'ers may have to pay package delivery surcharge to help fund MTA
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 06:50:16 PM »
City & State provides some helpful context for this bill:
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/new-york-city/bill-no-one-wants-pass-during-pandemic.html

I'm definitely sympathetic to the goal of reducing the amount of packages & delivery trucks on our streets. Just seems like a $3 surcharge is not necessarily the best way to accomplish that, and it's a politically terrible time to roll out new consumer taxes.
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