Author Topic: NYT Article Criticizing JH  (Read 10289 times)

Offline DENYC

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NYT Article Criticizing JH
« on: January 03, 2009, 10:08:37 AM »
Wow.  This article threw me for a loop.  I don't mean to diminish the author's experiences, but I sure hate the horrible light in which it portrays JH . . . and as a relative newcomer I certainly haven't found it to be true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/nyregion/thecity/04elli.html?ref=thecity

Offline citizenjane

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 11:00:23 AM »

Oh my.

Sure, it might be taken as negative to some, but who are we kidding?  I mean, the bar he encountered that was set on preserving a white stronghold (Legend's perhaps?) or the Korean (Korea only!) nightclub.  As the white folks of JH excluded people of color for so long and to some extent, people of color are sometimes excluding white folks looking for "authentic experiences" in their own enclaves.  Not a shock.  That this jogging white guy would encounter fear and suspicion while taking photographs of folks who may be undocumented...who is really surprised by this but him?

As much as I like to read "positive" articles about JH, I tend to be happier when somebody presents reality - even if it has to be this slightly pretentious white guy who misses his "exotic environments."  Sure beats the hell out of articles about whether JH has finally succumbed to Starbucks or what-have-you.

Interesting that Mr. Ellick decided to move back to Manhattan prior to publishing this article.  So incredibly exotic over there...

Maria

Offline leoooog

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 01:22:03 PM »
Interesting that Mr. Ellick decided to move back to Manhattan prior to publishing this article.  So incredibly exotic over there...

He sounds like he settled for acceptance, as the neighborhood with the exotic appeal was unwilling to accept him (and his friends were unwilling to accept Jackson Heights).

Offline liam0925

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 01:49:34 PM »
Wow.  This article threw me for a loop.  I don't mean to diminish the author's experiences, but I sure hate the horrible light in which it portrays JH . . . and as a relative newcomer I certainly haven't found it to be true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/nyregion/thecity/04elli.html?ref=thecity


The author states: "Come summer, I was determined to make Queens work by testing my hobbies: jogging, biking and photography. My success was limited."  Maybe if he tried conversing with people instead of just observing them he might have had a different and better experience.  This would be wedding crasher---an experience described in the article--really thought that a community with open arms wouldn't notice a closed mind!  Vaya con dios! 


Offline yford

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 04:32:30 PM »
Wow- this guy must be really good looking if he expects women all over queens to be gushing over him and for folks to let him snap their picture unquestioned. Clearly feels entitled to photograph whomever he pleases, has never seen the runners who use the bike lanes on 34th Ave and never found Cafe Teresa. GIVE ME A BREAK.  It seems like the real problem is that he was looking what he thought Jackson Heights was. I'll take this neighborhood over killer-yuppie-strollers-gone-wild (my former 'hood Park Slope) any day.
As an aside, I hang out in Legends from time to time and doubt its the bar he refers to. Many of the patrons (myself included) are other than white and Texas BBQ in the back is run by a Latina.  I think the bar he's referring to is across the street from Dante's catering hall in the Waldbaum's shopping center.  My partner and I peeked in the window to check the place out (they have decent taps!) but based on the glares we got- kept walking.

Offline broad

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 04:51:28 PM »
Oh my.

Sure, it might be taken as negative to some, but who are we kidding?  I mean, the bar he encountered that was set on preserving a white stronghold (Legend's perhaps?) or the Korean (Korea only!) nightclub. 

Um, Legends is staffed mainly by Hispanic people.  I used to go there a couple of times a week and, thought I can't say I've seen a ton of Asians, Whites, Hispanics, and African-Americans were all pretty regular customers.  And when the waitress commented on my (male) friend's wedding ring and he introduced her to his husband, no one batted an eye....

I find the idea that the author is so up in arms about not being able to go to a few ethnic businesses when many of the people in our hood experience way more trouble in countless American-owned businesses, (including the author's co-op building) crazy! :) 

Who jogs at busy intersections?  I go north toward the residential neighborhood and have no problem.

If that's the Korean karaoke joint I am thinking of, it looks totally like a front for something shady.  There are places everywhere where people aren't welcome (i.e. I won't be getting into a bailerina club anytime soon), but generally, I really don't want to go to them either.  I've been very welcomed pretty much everywhere here...

Thanks for posting it!


Offline rachel

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 10:55:51 PM »
Just read the article.  Sounds like this is a white guy who was looking to fetishize/exoticize the "Other" and was left feeling alienated when people called him on his B.S.!!! I'm white, Jewish, and middle class and although the diversity (and the price!) of JH was very appealing to me when deciding to move here as opposed to somewhere white-washed like Park Slope, I did not move here expecting to be lovingly embraced by every person I met (especially when I don't even speak the same language as many people), and realized that people do tend to self-segregate even within a diverse zip code.  I moved here to live in a diverse community and maybe learn a little something new about other people. In living here for the past 8 months, I've found people to be very friendly, respectful, or just keeping to themselves (which I am not personally offended by).

I thought it was very callous the way that the author talked so degradingly about the "Latino laborers" that drink at the local bars on Roosevelt.  One thing that really makes me proud to live in this neighborhood is that people work damn hard here, especially the immigrants, and they have created a sustainable community through that hard work.  I don't know what bars this guy hangs around where people are spewing racist remarks about their neighbors, but I really doubt that these few locals are representative of the majority of white folks living here, and it seems irresponsible of the author to have painted it that way.

Moreover, NO one disses MY Jackson Heights!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 11:05:01 PM by rachel »

Offline liam0925

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 03:18:16 AM »
Moreover, NO one disses MY Jackson Heights!
Amen!  :rockon:

Offline citizenjane

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 03:38:56 AM »
As an aside, I hang out in Legends from time to time and doubt its the bar he refers to. Many of the patrons (myself included) are other than white and Texas BBQ in the back is run by a Latina.  I think the bar he's referring to is across the street from Dante's catering hall in the Waldbaum's shopping center.  My partner and I peeked in the window to check the place out (they have decent taps!) but based on the glares we got- kept walking.

Mr Ellick quoted the bar owner as saying “Why did you come to Gandhiland?”   It made me think that bar was close to the 74th St./South Asian business district.  I do hope it wasn't Legends, but wonder still if it may have been ... or perhaps The Ready Penny?  I've not been in there and I haven't been inside the bar near Walbaum's either.  Sad in any case.

(By the way - La Terraza at 40-19 Gleane St., a bit south of Roosevelt has Guinness and Brooklyn on draft and a very arty/queer-friendly space.)


Offline eddiestjohns

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 10:50:34 AM »
"On my first Sunday in Queens, I went to a crusty bar to watch a football game and encountered Irishmen equipped with authentic accents and swollen red cheeks. I took a stool and asked for a root beer, a nonalcoholic beverage that made me the instant butt of jokes. I laughed and thought that I had finally found some neighborhood pals.

Everyone was on a first-name basis, a situation that prompted the owner to ask me a question. “Why did you come to Gandhiland?” he demanded, in a reference to the vibrant South Asian communities that defined the area. After a five-minute monologue on the glory days of this former Irish enclave, he said, “This is the last white stronghold from here to Shea Stadium, and together, we’re going to keep it that way.”



I've been frequenting Legends since it was called the Tip Toe Inn a dozen years ago and if the writer was referring to this place he was hallucinating.  The place has a very diverse clientele and staff.  Very few customers actually come from the other side of the pond and speak with an Irish "accent".  There is only one bartender who works only one shift who was born in Ireland.  Cuban barmaid five days a week, Colombian waitress six nights a week, Mexican cook six nights a week and a mix of bartenders in the evening one who is half Iranian.

It was a poorly conceived and written article and I am glad he ts back in Manhattan!

Offline docrck

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 11:48:13 AM »
We sent in a letter to the editor at Times. Here is our text:


To the Editor:

Adam Ellick found our Queens neighborhood to be “exotic” and “impenetrable” (In Queens: A Melting Pot, and a Closed Book, Published: January 2nd, 2009).  Rather than attributing his difficulty in building local relationships to inhospitable ethnic populations laboring and living in Jackson Heights, he would be wise to consider another explanation. Perhaps our neighbors simply found his attitude, assumptions about their immigration status and incessant search for “colorful” anecdotes voyeuristic and disturbing. 



Offline jocy

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 01:59:28 PM »
I'm not one to judge... but experiences are always how the person makes it to be.  You can look at the same glass either half empty or half full.  Sounds like he was a half empty kinda guy and didn't utilize all of the resources that JH has to offer.


Offline Shelby2

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2009, 06:33:38 PM »
We sent in a letter to the editor at Times. Here is our text:


To the Editor:

Adam Ellick found our Queens neighborhood to be “exotic” and “impenetrable” (In Queens: A Melting Pot, and a Closed Book, Published: January 2nd, 2009).  Rather than attributing his difficulty in building local relationships to inhospitable ethnic populations laboring and living in Jackson Heights, he would be wise to consider another explanation. Perhaps our neighbors simply found his attitude, assumptions about their immigration status and incessant search for “colorful” anecdotes voyeuristic and disturbing. 

Let us know if it gets published.

Offline DENYC

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 11:14:56 PM »
We sent in a letter to the editor at Times. Here is our text:


To the Editor:

Adam Ellick found our Queens neighborhood to be “exotic” and “impenetrable” (In Queens: A Melting Pot, and a Closed Book, Published: January 2nd, 2009).  Rather than attributing his difficulty in building local relationships to inhospitable ethnic populations laboring and living in Jackson Heights, he would be wise to consider another explanation. Perhaps our neighbors simply found his attitude, assumptions about their immigration status and incessant search for “colorful” anecdotes voyeuristic and disturbing. 




Bravo.  Thanks to all for their thoughtful insights.  Nice to have received such interesting replies to my first post!

Offline Chuckster

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Re: NYT Article Criticizing JH
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 11:36:45 AM »
Sarah E. Stanfield, a Jackson Heights based blogger from The Write Bunch blog shares her thoughts on the subject.  I say bravo to her blog entry in response to Mr. Ellick's New York Times article.

SS: When Did My Neighborhood Become The Heart of Darkness?
The Chuckster has spoken!