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Author Topic: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism  (Read 2446 times)

Offline Gordan

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« on: November 09, 2018, 09:08:45 PM »
That NY Times article provides some nice insight and adds a humanizing touch to what the process of becoming a freshman congress person is. Honestly, she and many others made major sacrifices to run. The amount of money it takes alone can crush someone. How do you continue to pay your bills and in other's case make time for your family while doing all this. It can crush someone. She's young and set out to do something for the right reasons and now she is living with the consequences of being vilified by the rich and powerful who are manipulating the poor and ignorant.

So many people are being elected by dark money because their life is gets subsidized and it allows them to campaign. Ordinary people don't have that luxury. So ordinary people are not getting into congress. This is a cancer on democracy.

Communism isn't a concern cause, guess what? We are in AMERICA! I think her core message has been that working people deserve equal access to opportunities which will allow them to live with dignity. How could you be against that?

I was on the fence during the primary but, voted for her anyway. And the effect she had on a local level was immediate. It freed other politicians to support IDC challengers. And now we have much better local representation because people no longer feared Crowley.


« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 06:09:58 PM by toddg »
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Offline Chingwa

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 09:07:41 AM »
Communism is a concern when our own political leaders start adopting socialist rhetoric in order to gain or keep political office.  There's nothing special about this patch of earth that says Communism cannot happen here.  It is the ideas and values of our people and leaders that keep America the way it is.  Communism has brought unimaginable suffering to those countries that allowed it to flourish, it's happened over and over, there is no excuse for anyone to be naive on that subject.

In the very best case the combination of having "free" healthcare, a guaranteed federal job program, and unrestricted border protection (all desirable things according to Cortez) leads to a demographics nightmare of insane proportion.  Free healthcare will be paid by the ever shrinking middle class.  Free jobs will be paid by the ever shrinking middle class.  Unrestricted borders will import a permanent service class that will be weaned on these "free" services and that will be a population that does not share the same values of individual freedom as Americans today.

Lets face it, America is the country it is because of the middle class.  Once that goes away you will have a population of rich people who dominate a population of poor people.  Sounds like a perfect recipe for communism to me.

Ms. Cortez is a Democratic SOCIALIST, and her rhetoric is plainly socialist.  I'm all for young politician's coming in and upsetting the establishment apple cart in this country.  BUT that doesn't mean we need to throw the lessons of history out with our old corrupt politicians.
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Offline dssjh

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2018, 09:58:23 AM »
unintentionally, you just crystallized the reasons we NEED politicians like her. we've seen the destruction of lives that results when we let oligarchs and billionaires run wild and treat the rest of us like sentient urinals.

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez espouses the wild-eyed radicalism of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, blended with the loony leftism of JFK. the kind of thing we need to eradicate the dictatorial policies of the so-called president -- many of them written by self-described Leninist Steve Bannon.

and if you buy into the false flag argument that Sweden, Finland and Iceland are under the crushing boot of Communist tyranny - as you seem to - i suggest you get out more.
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Offline Chingwa

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2018, 10:34:05 AM »
I'm impressed by the number of false-equivalencies you packed into so few lines.

Our political options are not limited to billionaire oligarchs on one side and marxist crazies on the other.

I wouldn't describe her as an FDR or a JFK just because you don't like the current executive administration.

I never mentioned Sweden, or Finland, or Iceland. A LOT of assumptions on your part.  I'm talking about policies that Ms.Cortez actually spoke about in her campaign, I'm not making assumptions about you.

But since you brought up scandinavian countries they certainly do not match our circumstances in this country.  They are largely homogenous ethnically and culturally, and even though they are much smaller in population than us they still have some of the highest tax rates in the world to pay for their overzealous social programs.  I'm not going to make assumptions about you, but I know that MY taxes are already higher than I want them to be.
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Offline sl

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 04:32:06 PM »
Quote from: dssjh on November 08, 2018, 08:32:39 PM
i hope she's at the leading edge of the formation that will drive the fascists into the dirt.

you don't negotiate with fascists. you destroy them.

You are always so angry.
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Offline dssjh

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 04:40:26 PM »
and you are always whining.
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Offline Gordan

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2018, 12:23:29 AM »
Quote from: Chingwa on November 11, 2018, 09:07:41 AM
Communism is a concern when our own political leaders start adopting socialist rhetoric in order to gain or keep political office.  There's nothing special about this patch of earth that says Communism cannot happen here.  It is the ideas and values of our people and leaders that keep America the way it is.  Communism has brought unimaginable suffering to those countries that allowed it to flourish, it's happened over and over, there is no excuse for anyone to be naive on that subject.

In the very best case the combination of having "free" healthcare, a guaranteed federal job program, and unrestricted border protection (all desirable things according to Cortez) leads to a demographics nightmare of insane proportion.  Free healthcare will be paid by the ever shrinking middle class.  Free jobs will be paid by the ever shrinking middle class.  Unrestricted borders will import a permanent service class that will be weaned on these "free" services and that will be a population that does not share the same values of individual freedom as Americans today.

Lets face it, America is the country it is because of the middle class.  Once that goes away you will have a population of rich people who dominate a population of poor people.  Sounds like a perfect recipe for communism to me.

Ms. Cortez is a Democratic SOCIALIST, and her rhetoric is plainly socialist.  I'm all for young politician's coming in and upsetting the establishment apple cart in this country.  BUT that doesn't mean we need to throw the lessons of history out with our old corrupt politicians.

Guess I can't help myself here but, I just wanted to clarify that it's highly unlikely that a freshman congress woman can overthrow an entire branch of government consisting of 535 members. And then move on to the other two branches. That seemed obvious to me but, your post made it seem like you need to be reassured.

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Offline Chingwa

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 09:35:09 AM »
Quote
Guess I can't help myself here but...
We've all had that feeling before.  ;D
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Offline jeanette

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 06:38:39 AM »
Quote from: Gordan on November 12, 2018, 12:23:29 AM
... it's highly unlikely that a freshman congress woman can overthrow an entire branch of government consisting of 535 members. And then move on to the other two branches.

Highlighting what she can't do is not very reassuring.

Nevertheless, others will follow in her footsteps. In major cities and border states, a politician will be guaranteed to win by seducing voters with the "promise" of governmental largess.
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Offline dssjh

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 09:18:04 AM »
that's what politicians do.

the "promise" of free stuff vs. the "promise" of banning abortion and gay marriage, while restricting immigration of "those people."

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Offline Ed

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 10:14:09 AM »
Hey I'm happy to give up some of my "free" war and "free" corporate welfare for universal healthcare....
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Offline Chingwa

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 01:04:49 PM »
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Hey I'm happy to give up some of my "free" war and "free" corporate welfare for universal healthcare....
Except you won't be.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 12:05:08 AM »
Quote from: Chingwa on November 13, 2018, 01:04:49 PM
Quote
Hey I'm happy to give up some of my "free" war and "free" corporate welfare for universal healthcare....
Except you won't be.
Feel free to elaborate.
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Offline lalochezia

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2018, 11:55:34 AM »
Quote from: Chingwa on November 14, 2018, 09:42:57 AM

Quote
Feel free to elaborate.
I'd be happy to give up some war and corporate welfare as well, I'm just saying (from a realist point of view) that isn't going to be happening.  So are you willing to pay even more out of your own pocket for this universal healthcare program?  Some might be willing to.  I am not willing to.

If you don't try you don't get change. We should just give up?
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Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Democratic Socialism
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2018, 12:01:18 PM »
Quote from: Chingwa on November 14, 2018, 09:42:57 AM
Quote
Moderator's Note:
Well to be fair, our new representative is a self-avowed Democratic-Socialist, so it seems to be on-topic to at least some degree.  Further since she isn't in office yet and hasn't had the ability to do anything yet, all we can talk about are our hopes for her based on her rhetoric to this point.

Quote
Feel free to elaborate.
So are you willing to pay even more out of your own pocket for this universal healthcare program?  Some might be willing to.  I am not willing to.

Yes, am willing to. Nothing is for nothing.  Besides healthcare is already so expensive here I can't see it getting more than we already pay.  In countries where there's universal healthcare extra healthcare taxes are nowhere near as much as monthly American Health Care insurance costs.
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