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Author Topic: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.  (Read 10605 times)

Offline theplanesland

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2017, 07:53:55 AM »
Quote from: Sky23 on December 29, 2017, 04:07:04 PM

Quote from: Sky23 on April 12, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
I had to leave espresso 77 without a coffee because I didn't have cash on me. ... Isnt $4 way more than enough to cover that small transaction fee?

Same here, I stopped going there after this happened twice. They have over priced coffee for the area and its nothing to rave about. I regret donating money for them to expand.

So ... they charge $2.50 for a large coffee. Cafe Bene charges $2.20. Dunkin charges $2.09. And 77's coffee is a LOT better than Dunkin, and their expenses are way higher (no economies of scale.) I mean, I'm willing to drop forty cents because I want something in my neighborhood where families can hang out that isn't a giant faceless chain.
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Offline hfm

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2018, 06:02:41 PM »
Quote from: Sky23 on December 29, 2017, 04:07:04 PM

Quote from: Sky23 on April 12, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
I had to leave espresso 77 without a coffee because I didn't have cash on me. ... Isnt $4 way more than enough to cover that small transaction fee?

Same here, I stopped going there after this happened twice. They have over priced coffee for the area and its nothing to rave about. I regret donating money for them to expand.

I didn't give them money either, but I tip extremely well when I'm in there and that's my way of saying thanks for being in the neighborhood and providing good service. It's not like I don't like E77, I'm just not interested in throwing money at a business like it's a charity. If they needed money to expand it should be the owner's responsibility to come up with the capital through normal funding avenues. I don't blame them for doing the "go fund me" type route though, if it works, it works.. Just not my style.

I wouldn't mind paying an extra 2% + the transaction fee of 5-10 cents if my order is under $10 or whatever to cover their merchant account charge. The percentage itself is the same whether it's $4 or $20, so it's just that small per transaction fee that is the kicker. And that's usually way less than the percentage. If they wanted to overcharge for it and make a few pennies, then just charge people a 30-35 cent fee to use a card if the amount is under $10. Simple, everyone wins and no one is turned away or annoyed for not having cash or not wanting to add crap to their order to get above $10.
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2018, 04:06:36 PM »
Quote
I wouldn't mind paying an extra 2% + the transaction fee of 5-10 cents if my order is under $10 or whatever to cover their merchant account charge. The percentage itself is the same whether it's $4 or $20, so it's just that small per transaction fee that is the kicker. And that's usually way less than the percentage. If they wanted to overcharge for it and make a few pennies, then just charge people a 30-35 cent fee to use a card if the amount is under $10. Simple, everyone wins and no one is turned away or annoyed for not having cash or not wanting to add crap to their order to get above $10.

What you are describing is a surcharge. It's great you wouldn't mind paying a surcharge. But it's illegal for merchants to charge in New York. So, if you want to live in NYS, you won't get the privilege of paying a surcharge.

Quote
A surcharge is a fee charged to customers simply because they're using a credit card. Merchant credit card agreements discourage merchants from charging surcharges on transactions. Moreover, surcharges are illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, and Puerto Rico.

While credit card issuers aren't allowed to charge a surcharge on credit card transactions, they are allowed to offer a discount for customers who pay with cash. You may have noticed some gas stations, for example, have one price set for credit card payments and a slightly lower, discounted price for cash transactions.

This practice is allowed.
https://www.thebalance.com/can-businesses-charge-a-credit-card-convenience-fee-4155333

Having two sets of prices for cash and credit has it's own set of headaches, and since so few businesses offer a cash discount, it appears they've made the business decision that's not worth the hassle.

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Offline AmazingJason

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2018, 05:02:13 PM »
Quote from: theplanesland on December 31, 2017, 07:53:55 AM
Quote from: Sky23 on December 29, 2017, 04:07:04 PM

Quote from: Sky23 on April 12, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
I had to leave espresso 77 without a coffee because I didn't have cash on me. ... Isnt $4 way more than enough to cover that small transaction fee?

Same here, I stopped going there after this happened twice. They have over priced coffee for the area and its nothing to rave about. I regret donating money for them to expand.

So ... they charge $2.50 for a large coffee. Cafe Bene charges $2.20. Dunkin charges $2.09. And 77's coffee is a LOT better than Dunkin, and their expenses are way higher (no economies of scale.) I mean, I'm willing to drop forty cents because I want something in my neighborhood where families can hang out that isn't a giant faceless chain.

I don't drink coffee, but I've heard from many people that Dunkin's coffee is excellent, and for some, their preferred choice.
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Offline AmazingJason

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2018, 05:05:24 PM »
Simple solution is to allow credit/debit card and raise the prices of the coffee and/or the food to make up for it. Especially as Jackson Heights starts to attract a younger demographic, they'll need to make this adjustment at some point.
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2018, 06:09:31 PM »
I think an even simpler solution is to carry cash. Not carrying cash is foolish. What kind of simpleton can't imagine credit card systems being down?
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Offline hfm

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2018, 10:05:47 PM »
Quote from: CaptainFlannel on January 02, 2018, 04:06:36 PM
Quote
I wouldn't mind paying an extra 2% + the transaction fee of 5-10 cents if my order is under $10 or whatever to cover their merchant account charge. The percentage itself is the same whether it's $4 or $20, so it's just that small per transaction fee that is the kicker. And that's usually way less than the percentage. If they wanted to overcharge for it and make a few pennies, then just charge people a 30-35 cent fee to use a card if the amount is under $10. Simple, everyone wins and no one is turned away or annoyed for not having cash or not wanting to add crap to their order to get above $10.

What you are describing is a surcharge. It's great you wouldn't mind paying a surcharge. But it's illegal for merchants to charge in New York. So, if you want to live in NYS, you won't get the privilege of paying a surcharge.

Quote
A surcharge is a fee charged to customers simply because they're using a credit card. Merchant credit card agreements discourage merchants from charging surcharges on transactions. Moreover, surcharges are illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, and Puerto Rico.

While credit card issuers aren't allowed to charge a surcharge on credit card transactions, they are allowed to offer a discount for customers who pay with cash. You may have noticed some gas stations, for example, have one price set for credit card payments and a slightly lower, discounted price for cash transactions.

This practice is allowed.
https://www.thebalance.com/can-businesses-charge-a-credit-card-convenience-fee-4155333

Having two sets of prices for cash and credit has it's own set of headaches, and since so few businesses offer a cash discount, it appears they've made the business decision that's not worth the hassle.

It's hilarious that you can have a "cash discount" but not a "credit surcharge". They are essentially the same thing except the business owner has to make it monumentally more confusing for themselves to achieve the same end goal. Thanks credit card companies.

I think a $35 cent cash discount is on orders under $10 is a good idea! :)
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2018, 10:11:27 AM »
Quote
Thanks credit card companies.

Credit card companies are not responsible for what is legal and illegal in NY State.
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Offline the80s

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2018, 11:46:05 AM »
Quote from: hfm on January 02, 2018, 10:05:47 PM
Quote from: CaptainFlannel on January 02, 2018, 04:06:36 PM
Quote
I wouldn't mind paying an extra 2% + the transaction fee of 5-10 cents if my order is under $10 or whatever to cover their merchant account charge. The percentage itself is the same whether it's $4 or $20, so it's just that small per transaction fee that is the kicker. And that's usually way less than the percentage. If they wanted to overcharge for it and make a few pennies, then just charge people a 30-35 cent fee to use a card if the amount is under $10. Simple, everyone wins and no one is turned away or annoyed for not having cash or not wanting to add crap to their order to get above $10.

What you are describing is a surcharge. It's great you wouldn't mind paying a surcharge. But it's illegal for merchants to charge in New York. So, if you want to live in NYS, you won't get the privilege of paying a surcharge.

Quote
A surcharge is a fee charged to customers simply because they're using a credit card. Merchant credit card agreements discourage merchants from charging surcharges on transactions. Moreover, surcharges are illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, and Puerto Rico.

While credit card issuers aren't allowed to charge a surcharge on credit card transactions, they are allowed to offer a discount for customers who pay with cash. You may have noticed some gas stations, for example, have one price set for credit card payments and a slightly lower, discounted price for cash transactions.

This practice is allowed.
https://www.thebalance.com/can-businesses-charge-a-credit-card-convenience-fee-4155333

Having two sets of prices for cash and credit has it's own set of headaches, and since so few businesses offer a cash discount, it appears they've made the business decision that's not worth the hassle.

It's hilarious that you can have a "cash discount" but not a "credit surcharge". They are essentially the same thing except the business owner has to make it monumentally more confusing for themselves to achieve the same end goal. Thanks credit card companies.

I think a $35 cent cash discount is on orders under $10 is a good idea! :)

It's indeed hilarious and might in fact be illegal. A case about New York's "no surcharge for credit card payments" law actually went all the way to the Supreme Court in 2017. They basically threw it back to a lower court to decide, but noted that the law definitely concerned free speech, not just price regulations, since it regulates how people can communicate about their prices ("surcharge" vs. "discount"), not just the prices themselves.

More discussion of the issues here:
http://www.scotusblog.com/2017/03/opinion-analysis-justices-offer-minimalist-decision-new-york-credit-card-surcharge-statute/

That lower court (the 2nd Court of Appeals) issued a judgement in December that basically threw it down another level, to New York State's highest court, to decide. (http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/0d66148d-8f08-48db-9fb3-b4c7b7925473/1/doc/13-4533_opn.pdf)

So, stay tuned! Soon surcharges for the use of credit cards may be legal in New York, as they are in most states. But apparently it is quite a thorny legal issue, so who knows.
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Offline JH3525

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2018, 11:54:56 AM »
I completely agree with Captain Flannel - CARRY CASH.  What's the big deal about spending a minute or two at
an ATM machine once a week withdrawing cash.  I never leave home without $75.00 in cash and a credit card.  NO the credit card minimum should not be ditched. 
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Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2018, 03:18:06 PM »
It's indeed hilarious and might in fact be illegal.

What you outlined below this statement confirms that it is currently illegal. No might about it.

Quote
What's the big deal about spending a minute or two at an ATM machine once a week withdrawing cash.


I suspect people who want to walk around cashless have never lived through a blackout or having a credit card machine or system go down. I remember at least a decade ago there was a period of intense solar storms that effected those networks. In an emergency, cash is king. I don't walk around with loads of cash on me, but I usually have at least some. I also understand credit card fees and how much that impacts a small business's bottom line. I try to cultivate an awareness within myself that I am not the center of the universe, and part of that for me is not taking umbrage that the locally owned convenience store isn't going to take a credit card to buy a bottle of Snapple.
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Offline dssjh

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2018, 04:35:31 PM »
i'd say +1 for Captain Flannel's comments, but the number of thumbs-up is much higher. having lived through a blackout, as well as Hurricane Gloria and the Northridge earthquake in L.A., i'd never dream of being without cash on hand for any length of time. even a day or two, if i have to, say, pay an emergency plumber in cash, makes me uneasy.
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Offline N00b

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2018, 05:38:36 PM »
Quote from: CaptainFlannel on January 03, 2018, 03:18:06 PM
It's indeed hilarious and might in fact be illegal.

What you outlined below this statement confirms that it is currently illegal. No might about it.

Quote
What's the big deal about spending a minute or two at an ATM machine once a week withdrawing cash.


I suspect people who want to walk around cashless have never lived through a blackout or having a credit card machine or system go down. I remember at least a decade ago there was a period of intense solar storms that effected those networks. In an emergency, cash is king. I don't walk around with loads of cash on me, but I usually have at least some. I also understand credit card fees and how much that impacts a small business's bottom line. I try to cultivate an awareness within myself that I am not the center of the universe, and part of that for me is not taking umbrage that the locally owned convenience store isn't going to take a credit card to buy a bottle of Snapple.

this times 100, especially the sentence bolded by me. I don't understand how people can both claim they want to support small businesses and then balk at the first sign of an inconvenience. I love to use credit cards as much as I can to collect points but still, I carry cash at all times.

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Offline Shelby2

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2018, 12:25:14 PM »
I overheard a customer at one of the stands at the greenmarket today (in a huff) telling the staff that their $5 minimum for credit card purchases goes against what the credit card companies allow them to do.

I always carry plenty of cash to the greenmarket. The last thing I would want is for vendors to stop coming to the greenmarket because their costs are too great to make it worthwhile for them to be there.
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Offline Shelby2

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2018, 03:43:58 PM »
I went to Kim Brothers Produce market today and they have a new sign near the register that states they are requiring a 3.5% surcharge on credit card purchases. Even though I nearly always pay in cash when I go there, today I was running short on cash and planned to use my credit card. I told the English-speaking cashier the surcharge is illegal but she just pretty much looked straight through me like she couldn't hear me.
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