Author Topic: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.  (Read 10601 times)

Offline mango

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2017, 10:55:15 AM »
I think some of you are missing the point.  They are in business for my money, i don't really care what the surcharges are.  make it convenient for the modern consumer, or run the risk of losing customers.   

when you are a coffee shop and sell a product for $2.50, it makes no sense to have a minimum transaction fee.  JH is like this little bubble where you have to reach a minimum at all these stores. 

every independent shop in LIC, astoria, manhattan has figured this out, they have no minimum because they are competing.   

most people know cash is king, and if i happen to have cash...  of course i will use it.  but me like a huge # of other people my age just dont carry much cash anymore. 

ps. i was unaware espresso77 had a gift card system, they should advertise that as an alternative. 

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2017, 11:42:56 AM »
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I think some of you are missing the point.  They are in business for my money, i don't really care what the surcharges are.

^I think perhaps you miss the point. Someone like you, who would walk out of business and not frequent it because you are bothered by not being put $2 on a credit card, probably represents a very small fraction of the population. The business doesn't care they aren't catering to your whims, largely because most folks are probably way more reasonable about when they insist they must be able to use their credit card. When a decent chunk of their target market cares (like maybe 10%) as much as you and your friends do that they can't use their credit card to buy a cup of coffee, then the business might care enough to change.

If you have evidence that shows your attitude and actions are common (like, maybe represented by +10%) and growing (rather than anecdotes), I'd be interested.

Offline NYC Peromyscus

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »

every independent shop in LIC, astoria, manhattan


A) "every independent shop" is stretching a bit here...cash only businesses still exist in these places

B) Jackson Heights is not the same as those neighborhoods

Offline mango

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 01:24:51 PM »
evidence....out of this random  tread  i started 3/11 people said they sometimes pass on these credit minimum stores, because they don't carry cash.  Forcing us not to support the local business.  I personally spend about $40 a week at starbucks,  i would much rather spend at the local spots if they accommodated me. i'm sure there are more like me.   

this whole thing was just a suggestion, i think the local stores would do more business if they ditched the of model of card minimums.  others have, so they obviously are not losing money.
we aren't credit card  point hordering monsters, its just a convince thing.  Time is precious, i'm not going to waste my time going to an atm. 

A) i know cash only business still exist, i was only talking about places that take cards, but have minimum amount to use it.  You dont see the minimum stores model  in those hoods much anymore, because the customer has evolved into cashless.   
B) JH will change into something similar.  this was just an idea i really feel will help the local stores vs the giants. 

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2017, 02:41:41 PM »
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evidence....out of this random  tread  i started 3/11 people said they sometimes pass on these credit minimum stores, because they don't carry cash.  Forcing us not to support the local business.  I personally spend about $40 a week at starbucks,  i would much rather spend at the local spots if they accommodated me. i'm sure there are more like me.
   

None of that is evidence. The plural of anecdote is not data. Also, please, you aren't being forced to not support local business. You have a choice, and you choose not to support local businesses.

Businesses will cut the minimum purchases to accept a credit card if a large enough segment of their target market makes a fuss about it. Prices would going to go up a bit to cover processing fees. I think since many haven't, you can take that as evidence that you are in a pretty small minority for now.

Additionally, food related businesses are usually pretty small margin businesses, and unless there's evidence that customers are likely to spend more on an average purchase when they can use a card, I think there isn't much incentive there. For example, in restaurants, it was demonstrated that people who can use a credit card to pay for a meal are more likely to spend more for their meals than someone paying cash. So there's a pretty solid business case for why those businesses should have accepted cards and the associated fees (which pre-Square, included a transaction fee for every credit card swipe). All cash restaurants are still around, but they are far less common today than they were 20 years ago.

Offline Palermo

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 12:44:02 AM »
They are in business for my money
An oft noted consumer fallacy, but an understandable one, as we as a whole are generally more familiar with national chains than with independent stores, especially out in the burbs.  Chains have an inexhaustible product supply and they profit not by product quality or uniqueness, but rather proliferation and accessibility.  To establish market share they are hyper inclusive about their customer base, for the wares they vend are relatively homogenized in relation to those offered by their major competitors, differing primarily by highly touted superficialities. 

Despite the wide net chains cast, a more apt statement would be "they are in business to make money".  That's not petty semantics, especially when it comes to owner operated shops which establish market share not by brute numbers, but rather product uniqueness and quality.  Concerns of production limitations, product exclusiveness, limited advertising and diminishing returns inhibits them for being "in business for your money".  Instead they have to put their energies on their target consumer, the one who is their best fit.  It's of course impolitical to announce that "our shop may not be the best fit for you", but it sure is the case.  Especially in owner run shops like Juju's, 969 Cafe and the Arepa Lady, there are only so many hours in a day and so many things a Sammy, Oda or Maria can do in those hours.  What's the name of the guy who runs Starbucks?  If I spent $40 a week anywhere, you can bet me and the owner would be on a first name basis and I wouldn't need a rewards card to be appreciated come my birthday.

So with that, I'll readily acquiesce that walk-aways occur when there is a credit card minimum.  That doesn't directly translate to a loss in business though.  Walk-aways happen everyday for all sorts of reasons.  Owners try to mitigate them without incurring undue costs, sacrificing identity or causing other walk-aways.  Not having a credit card minimum has its benefits and its drawbacks and owners have to weigh the twain (credit card transactions take longer than cash, which can increase customer waiting times, which certainly does result in walk-aways, especially in grab and go situations and crush periods.  Not having a cc minimum may result in swapping walk-aways while making less profitable transactions).  There is no overriding right or wrong answer.

So while I think Mango's blanket statement is less concerned advice and more a moneyed demand, it is, much to my dismay, a growing one.  As short as 10 years ago, if someone were to push forward plastic on a $3 item at my shop, eye rolls would flutter on the customers waiting behind them.  Now, atleast once per day, sometimes more, a would be card user makes a 180, often in a huff and the eye rolls are rare enough that when I get them, it's like a warm secret between old friends.  Not nearly enough of a thing to justify giving 30 cents (that's 10%!) to credit card company executives, but it's on my radar.  Unfortunately, the future more likely belongs to Mango's ilk than mine and that sucks not just because I'm a tin hat wearing person who doesn't want businesses, hackers and the government to know how and where I spend my money, but because cashless benefits the chain, not the owner operated shop.  They'll still survive, but it will be harder and they will be fewer.  Till then, whenever I hear about an eatery that only takes cash, my ears will perk up, as there's usually a pretty good reason that they can survive without plastic. 

Offline M7X7

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2017, 09:23:08 AM »
It's not legal in New York to charge more for credit card purchases.  It is, however, legal to offer a discount for cash.

Those are literally the same thing, phrased differently.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2017, 09:43:39 AM »
It's not legal in New York to charge more for credit card purchases.  It is, however, legal to offer a discount for cash.

Those are literally the same thing, phrased differently.

The law is very specific. It has to do with the price listed/posted -- you can't list an item for $100 and then charge $102 to the person paying with a credit card. However, you can list a price for $100 and charge $98 to the person paying cash.

"In practice, [the law] prevents them from selling a $100 item to card customers for $102, but lets them offer "discounts" to cash customers who might pay just $98. Ten other U.S. states have similar laws, court papers show."
http://www.reuters.com/article/new-york-creditcard-decision-idUSL1N11Z14220150929

Not sure what happened with this 2016 court case, but the link I attached a few posts above says: "In September 2016, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to hear Expressions Hair Design v. Schneiderman, the case challenging the New York statute that prohibits merchants from imposing a surcharge for using a credit or debit card, but does not prohibit cash discounts."

http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/credit-or-debit-card-surcharges-statutes.aspx

Offline Ms. Jackson

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2017, 11:14:23 AM »
For those always carrying cash, do you just go to ATMs a lot? Carry a large amount? In the age of credit cards, Seamless, Paypal, Venmo, and other bank-specific pay/transfer apps, I just don't need cash too often anymore. When I don't have time to hit up an ATM, I have had to pass up certain purchases or find an alternative store to buy what I need at that time. I do make mental notes for cash-only/minimum purchase places and plan to have cash when I want to stop by those places, but businesses are missing out on impulse purchases.


Offline Shelby2

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2017, 12:12:39 PM »
For those always carrying cash, do you just go to ATMs a lot? Carry a large amount? In the age of credit cards, Seamless, Paypal, Venmo, and other bank-specific pay/transfer apps, I just don't need cash too often anymore. When I don't have time to hit up an ATM, I have had to pass up certain purchases or find an alternative store to buy what I need at that time. I do make mental notes for cash-only/minimum purchase places and plan to have cash when I want to stop by those places, but businesses are missing out on impulse purchases.

I take out a couple hundred from the ATM and stash it somewhere safe in my apartment, and then just put $40 or so in my wallet and replenish when needed.

Offline JH-Edmund

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2017, 01:43:13 PM »
While carrying cash may be inconvenient, it is still the currency of this country, and it should be circulated.

Small business offer the Credit/Debit options as a convenience.

The fees are a sacrifice they take on by offering the convenience, fees often range from 2.49% to 3.5% and are also carry a transaction fee determined by the number of transactions and price range of transactions in a month.

I have encouraged many businesses who have minimums below $10 to go to the $10 mark.

They are not imposing a minimum to make people spend more, they are just trying to turn a small profit by offering the option.

The fees have caused many neighborhood businesses to go CASH ONLY

Rents are not cheap and we need these small businesses to survive to maintain the character of our community and to support many of the business owners of which many call our neighborhood home as well.




Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2017, 06:18:45 PM »
Given the above post^, what kind of person rolls in to a bodega to buy a bottle of Snapple and expects to use a credit card?

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For those always carrying cash, do you just go to ATMs a lot?


I go to an ATM usually about once a week or two. I take out money for myself and my SO from a joint account, and split the cash between us. We don't carry a large amount, and we use our credit card most of the time too, so the cash lasts awhile.

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In the age of credit cards, Seamless, Paypal, Venmo, and other bank-specific pay/transfer apps, I just don't need cash too often anymore.


Neither do I. But I don't want to be that guy who insists on using his chip card (and holding up everyone else in line) just to buy a tube of Crest, or that guy who won't go to a locally owned small business because heaven forbid I have to dig $3 out of my wallet. Or can't buy a bottle of Snapple without having to pick up a bunch of other stuff I don't need at the moment. Also, I want money on me in case of an emergency and the cash is needed, or in case credit card systems go down or there is a problem with the cloud, or denial of service attack, etc.

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I have had to pass up certain purchases or find an alternative store to buy what I need at that time. I do make mental notes for cash-only/minimum purchase places and plan to have cash when I want to stop by those places, but businesses are missing out on impulse purchases.

Me too, but I just go back when I have cash. Or I buy it somewhere else too. Or I run next door to take out some money from an ATM. I'm pretty clear that those places are making a business decision by taking cash only on small purchases, and they aren't at this point super concerned about the revenue loss from the "I refuse to carry cash on me" demographic.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 06:28:37 PM by CaptainFlannel »

Offline AmazingJason

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2017, 06:25:05 PM »
For those always carrying cash, do you just go to ATMs a lot? Carry a large amount? In the age of credit cards, Seamless, Paypal, Venmo, and other bank-specific pay/transfer apps, I just don't need cash too often anymore. When I don't have time to hit up an ATM, I have had to pass up certain purchases or find an alternative store to buy what I need at that time. I do make mental notes for cash-only/minimum purchase places and plan to have cash when I want to stop by those places, but businesses are missing out on impulse purchases.

That, to me, is also an issue. There isn't a convenient way to acquire cash other than making a separate trip to the bank/ATM. Back in the day, it was tolerable because cash was widely used in multiple aspects of life, but now it's become inefficient to do so because cash is so rarely used anymore. And the bank branches haven't modernized their machines. The ATMs operate slowly, only offer $20 bills, and often have long lines at peak hours. It's become a headache people want to increasingly avoid.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2017, 06:32:39 PM »
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There isn't a convenient way to acquire cash other than making a separate trip to the bank/ATM.

Seriously, there's an ATM machine in like 1 out of 3 businesses along 37th Avenue. This is not a real issue.

Offline jeanette

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Re: if you have own a store in JH - please ditch the credit minimum.
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2017, 07:48:14 PM »
"Seriously, there's an ATM machine in like 1 out of 3 businesses along 37th Avenue. This is not a real issue."

These ATMs are not cheap, and arguably not safe. You are better off spending $10 at the store and getting something for your money.

I just shopped at a 99 cent-er on Roosie east of 90th. They also do not accept any returns or exchanges. Someone seemed to be following me around as though I were a loss risk. They weren't friendly, and didn't offer to help me reach high-placed product even though I basically had to climb over the guy at the front.

In that area I recommend the shop on the north side of Roosie, right at the subway stairwell. The CC minimum is $6, and the workers are locals and speak Spanish. They are all friendly to me, and always helpful.