Author Topic: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature  (Read 4670 times)

Offline Dodger

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2017, 12:12:25 PM »
I don't blame Peralta for putting pragmatism and strategy before principle. I blame him for being a TERRIBLE strategic actor. (What was his big success--putting forth a budget that no republican voted for in order to embarrass the mainline democrats?)  This incompetence in terms of strategy is a problem, in my view, with a lot of weasely centrist democrats always rushing to compromise with so-called reasonable republicans. (Exhibit A: Democrats in Congress authorizing Bush's Iraq war.)

Of course let's be strategic and realistic as Peralta suggests. But here's the thing: Trump has triggered the awakening of a broad and angry progressive grass-roots movement (along with awakening the news media to an invigorated sense of purpose). This was the absolute worst time to go joining the IDC and he's going to be punished for it. (Even poor old Cuomo is desperately trying to move to the left now in order to stay relevant.) As the Republican party falls lock-step behind Trump they expose the falsity of the mythic reasonable Republicans with whom Democrats can work. 

If the U.S. had any kind of party discipline, Peralta would have been expelled and he could see how he far he would get running as an independent or a republican in the next election.  As it stands, my impression is he's succeeded in getting both the local Democratic party establishment and grass roots activists mad at him so I can't imagine he will survive the next primary. And the same goes for the other IDC senators in NYC. 

Offline wlirfan

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2017, 02:14:44 PM »
Poster above - you're the first person who I completely agree with.

His timed defection is horrible, and I will not support him in his next run.  I will not vote for him.  And he will be better off if he just went back to the mainline Democrats.

As for all this nonsense and finger pointing, I'm staying out of it.

Go back to the Democratic Party.

Offline thedude

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2017, 02:17:23 PM »
To be 100 percent clear because mis-information is being put out on this site:

The Democratic budget resolution was BANNED from being introduced and no Senators were allowed to vote on it.

This is unprecedented and against the Senate rules. Instead the Republicans introduced both their and the IDC bills up for a vote.

So we understand what happened here, the IDC was complicit in preventing the Democratic bill from being put up to a vote and were part and parcel of a sham process that allowed them to "vote" for a watered down version of the "Dream Act" which was in the IDC budget resolution.

That is Senator Jose Peralta's big "seat at the table." Disgusting.

Offline Rogue1on82

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2017, 02:59:07 PM »

Go back to the Democratic Party.

Yes back to the same party that took care of Flint, Michigan's water pipes. The same Democrats that cared for the future of Detroit, Michigan, same Democrats that have been taking care of Chicago. The same party that dropped the fight for women's rights decades ago, only to find our rights rolled back. Same Democratic party that has helped Puerto Rico become a state or to be able to have their votes/voices matter. Same Democratic Party that turned a blind eye to the problems happening in Puerto Rico ... selling off public school property. Same Democratic Party that didn't fight for the infrastructure upgrades for New Orleans before Katrina hit and devastated the area.

Yeah ... please join the Democrats, they've been exemplary in fighting for rights and the environment. Ironically the big "ticket" items that have been passed, were passed by Republicans such as: EPA, Water & Air Protections, Civil Rights, the 13th Amendment.

I rather support the person who puts the community before their political career. The person who understand that party politics doesn't improve quality of life issues.

I'm a life long Democrat and lately, I wonder why such blind loyalty to a party that hasn't done anything. They talk a lot, but they don't act a lot.


Offline queenskid2

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2017, 03:38:59 PM »

Go back to the Democratic Party.

Yes back to the same party that took care of Flint, Michigan's water pipes. The same Democrats that cared for the future of Detroit, Michigan, same Democrats that have been taking care of Chicago. The same party that dropped the fight for women's rights decades ago, only to find our rights rolled back. Same Democratic party that has helped Puerto Rico become a state or to be able to have their votes/voices matter. Same Democratic Party that turned a blind eye to the problems happening in Puerto Rico ... selling off public school property. Same Democratic Party that didn't fight for the infrastructure upgrades for New Orleans before Katrina hit and devastated the area.

Yeah ... please join the Democrats, they've been exemplary in fighting for rights and the environment. Ironically the big "ticket" items that have been passed, were passed by Republicans such as: EPA, Water & Air Protections, Civil Rights, the 13th Amendment.

I rather support the person who puts the community before their political career. The person who understand that party politics doesn't improve quality of life issues.

I'm a life long Democrat and lately, I wonder why such blind loyalty to a party that hasn't done anything. They talk a lot, but they don't act a lot.



Pre-Trump, your argument might have had some merit.  But with this guy in charge, I don't buy it anymore.  As you point out, the Dems have their flaws, but with Trump were way beyond mere political flaws.  His agenda is disgusting.

Offline wlirfan

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2017, 06:30:10 PM »

Go back to the Democratic Party.

Yes back to the same party that took care of Flint, Michigan's water pipes. The same Democrats that cared for the future of Detroit, Michigan, same Democrats that have been taking care of Chicago. The same party that dropped the fight for women's rights decades ago, only to find our rights rolled back. Same Democratic party that has helped Puerto Rico become a state or to be able to have their votes/voices matter. Same Democratic Party that turned a blind eye to the problems happening in Puerto Rico ... selling off public school property. Same Democratic Party that didn't fight for the infrastructure upgrades for New Orleans before Katrina hit and devastated the area.

Yeah ... please join the Democrats, they've been exemplary in fighting for rights and the environment. Ironically the big "ticket" items that have been passed, were passed by Republicans such as: EPA, Water & Air Protections, Civil Rights, the 13th Amendment.

I rather support the person who puts the community before their political career. The person who understand that party politics doesn't improve quality of life issues.

I'm a life long Democrat and lately, I wonder why such blind loyalty to a party that hasn't done anything. They talk a lot, but they don't act a lot.

1.  Flint Michigan - the Republican governor took away the power from the local government and placed his own representatives in charge, who decided to save some money and, thus, give the people contaminated water;

2.  Detroit - the auto industry, and the union jobs that go with it, would have been toast were it not for the democrats and their bail-out.  While the bailout may have its critics, the fact is that all of the companies that took the money repaid their loans, in full, and with interest, and our auto industry, and its union jobs, remain and are thriving;

3.  Women's Rights - The last time I checked, it is the Democratic Party that has fought for the right to choose, the Violence Against Women's Act, the ERA (which was defeated in the 70's, but not by the Democrats), etc.  Now that the Republicans are in charge, we can see the difference.

4.  Puerto Rico - As PR is a constant Democratic vote, its statehood (an issue that I know little about, and as I recall, PR had voted against statehood), is more than likely favored by the Democrats.  As for its economic woes, there were bills through Congress, proposed by Democrats, that would have bailed out our territory.  They never made it through the Republican-controlled House.

5.  Katrina - New Orleans is in Louisiana, a very red, Republican state.  Don't you mean Bobby Jindal did little for NO?  Last time I checked, he was a Republican.  And last time I checked, Bush, another R, was in charge of the Katrina mess, and did horribly with it.

6.  Your examples of 'big ticket' items such as the 13th Amendment, etc., does not take into account the history of the country.  You are correct that, in the past, the Democratic party was favored by the south, and the Republicans by the north, usually divided by race.  Since Lincoln freed the slaves, that was the divide.  LBJ, when he signed the Civil Rights laws of the 1960's into effect, famously said that he lost the south for the Democrats for a generation.  In fact, his opinion was optimistic. 

Looking at the present, it is the Republicans that want to abolish the EPA, that just enacted an Order lowering emissions and mileage standards, has denied climate change, and is considering a whole slew of laws that run contrary to my values.

You see, actual facts actually matter.  Look things up and read into them before you just trust what Hannity says.

Offline dssjh

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2017, 09:17:12 PM »
thank you, LIRfan.

and don't forget the so-called president proposing the defunding of Meals on Wheels, and having one of his ministers of propaganda call that decision "compassionate."

seriously.

and now back to the Peralta Report. give us 22 minutes, we'll have 1200 words on Joe Peralta.

Offline thedude

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The Dream Act is Dead. And so is the future of 38,000 Innocent Kids.
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2017, 08:02:43 AM »
As NYS budget deadlines approach, the passing of the Dream Act is completely off the table and dead. So is the future of 38,000 kids, who at no fault of their own, had their future flushed down the toilet, in a back room deal, traded away for a bunch of meaningless titles and perks, by a bunch of hack politicians. Disgusting.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2017/03/undocumented-students-in-new-york-city-test-boundaries-of-sanctuary-schools-110764

Offline Beherenow

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Re: The Dream Act is Dead. And so is the future of 38,000 Innocent Kids.
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2017, 08:21:53 AM »
You're making stuff up again. The Dream Act is not dead.  It is in the Assembly and IDC One-House budgets and its fate will be decided in negotiations.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: The Dream Act is Dead. And so is the future of 38,000 Innocent Kids.
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »
^^What does that Politico article have to do with your post? The word "dream" literally doesn't even appear in the text.

Offline queenskid2

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Re: DREAM Act in NYS Legislature
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2017, 01:34:04 PM »
As NYS budget deadlines approach, the passing of the Dream Act is completely off the table and dead. So is the future of 38,000 kids, who at no fault of their own, had their future flushed down the toilet, in a back room deal, traded away for a bunch of meaningless titles and perks, by a bunch of hack politicians. Disgusting.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2017/03/undocumented-students-in-new-york-city-test-boundaries-of-sanctuary-schools-110764

Dude, I'm not sure what you are talking about.  Even if Peralta had stayed with the regular democrats, and even if the IDC came back to the party, there would still not be enough votes for the Dream Act as long as Simcha Felder remained with the republicans.  Thus, the back room deal you keep talking about did not affect the futures of 38,000 kids.  If Felder were to suddenly caucus with the dems, and the IDC still supported the republicans, then I would join you in blasting the IDC.  But to imply that, but for the IDC's deal with the republicans, the Dream Act would be law, is just not true.  Moreover, Raise The Age seems like it's going to get passed, and if that happens, the IDC deserves some credit for pushing the Republicans to agree to it.